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Last Post 7/9/2011 5:09 PM by  Ron Miles
Outlanders 57 - Scarlet Dream
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Ron Miles
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1/1/2011 3:33 PM

    This is the official thread for comments on Outlanders #57 - Scarlet Dream

    The bibliography page is located HERE

    You can submit your own review HERE

    Be warned, this thread may contain spoilers for the book.

    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Ron Miles
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    2/6/2011 9:15 AM
    Just added the cover artwork for Scarlet Dream. A hot voodoo priestess Danger Babe plus an army of zombies. Whee!
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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    2/6/2011 6:32 PM
    All: To my knowledge nobody has read this book yet besides the author and the line editor. If you want to criticize the story once you have read some portion of it, that is one thing. Criticizing the story based solely on the cover is entirely another matter. You want to criticize the artwork or title, that's fair game as well.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    )3az )3aziah
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    2/6/2011 7:43 PM
    Ron,

    Even YOU cant say that this book has so many similarities to Marks book "Shadow Scourge"

    Just read what is printed on the back of each book -both quoted from THIS site

    Scarlet Dream

    "In the fetid swamps of Louisiana, the dead rise, commanded by their new, powerful queen. Facing off against an army of zombies, Kane, Grant and Brigid must somehow kill the undead. If they fail, the crazed voodoo priestess will infect her minions with a pre-dark biological weapon designed to destroy all life on earth. and then the dead will truly rise."

    Shadow Scourge

    "A renegade enforcer of the new order, Kane is now a freedom fighter dedicated with fellow insurrectionists to free the future from the yoke of Archon Power. The bayous of Louisiana, steeped in magic and voodoo, are a new epicenter of a dark, ancient evil. Here, the primordial horrors of a lost world are being resurrected into a living nightmare, unleashing a pestilence that may destroy hybrid and human alike."

    Just in case you can't check out these

    SD Louisiana / SS Louisiana
    SD swamps / SS bayous (same thing)
    SD the dead will truly rise / SS resurrected into a living nightmare (again same thing)
    SD pre-dark biological weapon designed to destroy all life on earth /SS unleashing a pestilence that may destroy hybrid and human alike (get the idea yet?)

    The proof is there Ron, there in YOUR web page so why delete the truth? Why are you so bothered by what is being pointed out to you on your own site?
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    )3az )3aziah
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    2/6/2011 7:51 PM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 06 Feb 2011 06:32 PM
    once you have read some portion of it, that is one thing. Criticizing the story based solely on the cover is entirely another matter.

    So once its published and we see it is the same rehashed storyline you will leave the posts intact for all to read and finally agree what I and Mark have posted was the truth?
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    Jax2
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    2/6/2011 8:26 PM
    So let me get this straight...

    People have posted lies and insults about me, about Outlanders and you've let those stand.

    I make a fairly generalized observation, somewhat snarky I admit, about the remarkable similarity between Scarlet Dream and Shadow Scourge and you delete it without so much as a heads-up PM?

    In lieu off the kind of attacks and even threats that you've permitted here--many which are still up--it's my opinion that if you on your own interpreted my post as a criticism rather than as an observation, you're definitely looking for a reason to alienate me and apparently other veteran members of this site.

    I have a suspicion that if somebody else had posted the exact same thing other than me, you wouldn't had given it a second thought.

    So what is it....Because I'm no longer writing OL due in the main to machinations on the part of the former executive editor, I therefore have no right make comments about characters and concepts of my own creation...and which remain my intellectual property? 

    Or (as I suspect is the most likely) did somebody currently connected to GE come whining to you because I still have the temerity to post occasonal reminders about the creator connection between me and property published as Outlanders?

    If that's the case, they (he or she or both) need to come to terms with it.

    I never walk away from anything I created. And everything I ever created always ends up back with me.

    Denial and pretense and deleted posts aren't going to change that.

    However, I will concede that I like the cover of Scarlet Dream. Too bad that it's a cover for a book that isn't canonical.








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    2/6/2011 8:27 PM
    I think everyone should calm down and enjoy a good read before they comment on the book. The upcoming book will pass on its own merit.
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    2/6/2011 9:25 PM
    Nobody from GE approached me.

    I am not trying to alienate anyone.

    I have taken a stronger hand in moderating the forums on this website in the last year specifically in order to prevent exactly the kind of garbage and hostility that has existed in the past. That includes forcing all posts from newer users to have to be approved before going live, and it includes policing posts from more established users who do not have post moderation applied to them automatically.

    There is no mystery that the Outlanders concept was created by Mark Ellis, and was also written primarily by Mark Ellis up through Ghostwalk. I understand and appreciate Mark's strong feelings on the subject, and I equally understand the the strong feelings of Mark's fans regarding the current status of the series.

    That being said, this website is JamesAxler.com . Fans of Mark Ellis can always find him at MarkEllisInk.com, and he is always welcome to post here. I am not prepared to close up shop on a website I have run for fourteen years because a certain author is no longer writing for the series. If I was going to do that, I should have quit after Laurence James left Deathlands. If someday the rights for Outlanders reverts to Mark Ellis and he resumes the series with another publisher or in another format under his own name, then I would 1) be absolutely thrilled for Mark and 2) would no longer track the series on this website aside from a huge pointer for fans to find it in its new home.

    Unless and until that happens, I will continue to track the series here and I will continue to do my best to moderate this forum as open and honestly as I know how. If I fail, it is only because I am human and not because I have any particular axe to grind with anyone.

    Mark, if I have offended or insulted you it was not intentional, and I do apologize. I had several other things going on earlier this evening when I removed those posts, and in retrospect you are correct that a private message to you was warranted. Unfortunately the end result is that now this thread appears to have been poisoned anyway. I am loathe to delete the whole thing soviet-style, so here it stands.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Jax2
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    2/6/2011 11:13 PM
    Well...I understand that and apology accepted.

    However, the tone of the follow-up posts make the original deleted one seem far worse than it actually was. It really wasn't a criticism but it was indeed an observation.

    If nothing else, I think we can all agree that it's undeniable the description of Scarlet Dream is remarkably similar to my own Shadow Scourge . Jim did a masterful job of delineating the resemblences.

    In my initial post, I asked rhetorically hadn't that book been written already and answered it by posting a link to the Graphic Audio excerpt of Shadow Scourge which featured the voodoo priestess.

    I then mentioned my intention to blog about the genesis of the Outlanders series, also referencing a degree of revisionism already applied to how it came about...I discussed that in greater length in a blog this past summer.

    One of the reasons I bring the matter up is simply a way of establishing my rights over my intellectual property. I am acting on advice I was given.

    Just to be clear--all characters and concepts of my own creation that continue to appear in Outlanders are my intellectual property.

    And that includes a certain voodoo priestess who may or may not appear in Scarlet Dream.

    Just sayin'.

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    2/7/2011 7:54 AM
    Ron,

    I too understand your position in all of this but was bothered by your draconian approach to the deletion of my first post, without so much as a PM to warn or say why, on the grounds that my observations in relation to the rear cover text of both books constituted an attack on the book before it has even been published. This was not the case; I only posted MY views on what I had read and my surprise at the many similarities that had gone un-noticed by the staff at GE and apparently yourself also.

    I hope we can now draw a line under this and move on?
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    2/7/2011 12:59 PM
    I saw the posts about Shadow Scourge/Scarlet Dream yesterday so I was surprised to come back today and find out they were deleted since they didn't seem to be more than comments and observations.

    But I was reminded of something I posted here about 2 years ago and I had to go looking for it before I found it again. Seems more appropriate now than when I posted it in April of 09!

    "As it, the OL books that have come out since Mark's Ghostwalk are just rehashing all of his concepts anyway, from the Millennial Consortium, to the Anunnaki Overlords to even reviving Colonel Thrush.

    From what I see, none of the fill-in OL writers are extending themselves to come up with anything remotely original.

    They're just churning out copies of books and plots that were written years ago.

    That's not enough to maintain the fan-base Mark built in my opinion. "

    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
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    2/7/2011 4:48 PM
    That is a wicked cool cover. Hopefully the cover blurb is very generalized and the contents within are not a copy of Shadow Scourge.

    Just out of curiosity, what would be some ideas fill-in writers could use or directions the series could be taken that would be viable storylines? It seems that if things are too different, or too much the same, readers wil be upset with the material.
     Is there some middle ground, or is it a hopeless case for anyone to try writing for the series?

    After I finish reading Ghostwalk, there is only one more book by Ellis left for me to read, I really hate the idea of putting this series aside for good. In the meantime if there are more books coming out, whether they are canon or not, I still want to read more of the Cerberus crew's adventures. I will give some fill-in writer's books a try later on, but really hoping Outlanders does become entirely in Mark's control.
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    2/7/2011 5:07 PM
    I don't see why the powers that be at GE don't give each of the new writers a character to concentrate on and then do stories based on the time before they joined up with Lakesh.

    Still won't be the same as Marks work but it would at least open up new ground for readers.

    Just a random thought.
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    2/7/2011 11:45 PM
    "From what I see, none of the fill-in OL writers are extending themselves to come up with anything remotely original. "

    Have you read any of the books since Mark's last regular contribution? I haven't read all of them (I am way behind in my reading), but I can at least say that Infinity Breach was unlike any other book I have read in the series. The Doc Savage pastiche flashbacks matched the tone of the series before it, but the Angels and the Bleed were very different than any other nemesis that I can recall.

    In the case of Scarlet Dream all we have thus far is the cover artwork and the back cover copy. Based solely on that thin data there seems to be some surface similarities to Shadow Scourge, sure. Even so, I have seen many cases where the back cover copy doesn't even come close to describing the actual book. We'll see when it actually comes out.

    And just so I am abundantly clear: this site will continue to cover both Deathlands and Outlanders for as long as they continue to be published under the James Axler pseudonym, regardless of who the actual author is. If one or the other series ceases to be published, or moves to a different publisher under a different byline, then they will no longer belong on JamesAxler.com and will cease to appear here. If both were to go away, then I guess I would pretty much archive the whole site and let it be a museum piece. I understand and respect the strong feelings that many longtime members have regarding the current status of OL, and that's fine. But I am simply not going to allow every OL thread to become all axe-grindy on the subject, because I believe that does a disservice to the website. All I can do is the best I can do, in the most honest and open way I know how. If that makes me draconian, or (as someone on another site I run once called me) a Punk Kid Hitler, well, so be it.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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    2/9/2011 10:12 AM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 07 Feb 2011 11:45 PM
    "From what I see, none of the fill-in OL writers are extending themselves to come up with anything remotely original. "

    Have you read any of the books since Mark's last regular contribution?

    At the time I posted the above I had read two of them and was starting on a third but lost interest after about 30 pages. That was Death Cry.

    The books didn't grab me, didn't have the feel of the real OL and so I didn't follow up on any others.

    Now after finding out how badly Mark was treated by an ex GE executive, I have zero interest. I wouldn't pay a penny for a GE product now.

    My opinion.


    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
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    5/12/2011 3:40 PM
    Has anyone read this yet?

    I have it -I had to buy it to prove once and for all if it was a rip off or not, but haven't started it yet.

    I will reserve further jugement until I have read it.

    It will most likely be the last OL book I will buy.
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    5/13/2011 11:58 AM
    Posted By )3az )3aziah on 12 May 2011 03:40 PM
    Has anyone read this yet? 



    Since it's not part of the canon, I don't see the point.
    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
    )3az )3aziah
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    5/13/2011 3:13 PM
    I know its not but after my rant about it being a direct rip off of Marks "Shadow Scourge" I had to get it to see if I was proven correct. Its been quite a while since I read SC I am re reading it before moving on to this one.
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    Gazhack
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    5/15/2011 11:51 AM
    I haven't read Shadow Scourge so can't comment on similarites. But I can say that I've just finished Scarlet Dream and enjoyed it immensely. And that the cover is seriously misleading on one point, ie. the appearence of Ezili Coeur Noir who I'm guessing the woman is supposed to be.

    I've posted a review to the book's page, which will hopefully appear in a few days.
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    6/19/2011 3:09 PM
    Oh god no...

    I'm about 80 pages into this and its laughable...







    SPOILERS -if you care...






    Brigit is wearing a shadow siut AND a pair of cowboy boots (with hollow heals) in on scene -RIK Cowboy boots are Krysty's claim to fame in DL AND shadow suits have built in boots.

    The discovery of a DL book in one of the dorms.... Hmmmm

    It also appears that Rik uses some other well known GE characters as a basis for his zombies -NO RIK NO, that is wrong, so wrong...

    God knows what the rest of this quite awful book is going to offer me? I plod on...
    ===============================
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    Wordsmith-reprise
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    6/19/2011 5:18 PM
    Jim, does someone really find a Deathlands book in one of the dorms?
    The Phantom
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    6/20/2011 8:20 PM
    If you run into any Team Phoenix Zombies, you know its time to put the book in a shredder.

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    6/22/2011 7:34 AM
    I can't believe I actually thought to compare Scarlet Dream to Shadow Scourge, how wrong could I have been? The books are NOTHING like each other, for a start Scarlet Dream is total crap...

    I will post a review once I finish it.
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    mikeclr
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    6/22/2011 8:55 AM
    Hey Baz,

    What GE characters are the zombies? The DL crew? Mack Bolan? Rogue Angel?

    Jake Strait?
    "Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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    6/22/2011 11:59 AM
    Posted By The Phantom on 20 Jun 2011 08:20 PM
    If you run into any Team Phoenix Zombies, you know its time to put the book in a shredder.



    I might read that one! But weren't TP zombies anyhow?

    As far as I'm concerned, all OL books not by Mark are zombies...dead travesties of something once alive and vital.
    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
    )3az )3aziah
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    6/22/2011 2:03 PM
    Posted By mikeclr on 22 Jun 2011 08:55 AM
    Hey Baz,

    What GE characters are the zombies? The DL crew? Mack Bolan? Rogue Angel?

    Jake Strait?

    I could say you will have to read it yourself, but as  I'm not a masochist...

    Try to work it out...

    Tall, well built (ermmm, its a zombie but thats what it says), eye patch. walking making trigger squeezing gestures with its hand pointing.

    Tall, slim with a black walking stick, tries to use it as a sword.

    Short, remains of white hair with a shard of glass in each hand that it uses like a knife -and throws at one point.

    Short, dumpy with remains of beaded hair.

    Answers on a postcard to...
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    6/23/2011 7:30 AM
    Geez...that's just silly.
    "Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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    6/23/2011 8:24 AM
    Posted By mikeclr on 23 Jun 2011 07:30 AM
    Geez...that's just silly.


    What the zeds or me asking for answers on a postcard
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    6/23/2011 5:39 PM
    The Zs man, the Zs...
    "Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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    6/25/2011 12:15 AM
    That comes off as not only stupid, but really, really desperate.
    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
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    6/25/2011 11:06 AM
    Scarlet Dream When I first read about this book I thought it was a direct rip off of an earlier Outlanders book called Shadow Scourge. How wrong I was. This book in no way a rips off of the other, in fact this one is nothing like it. If Shadow Scourge was a Porsche sports car then Scarlet Dream would be an Eastern European Trebant, such are the differences.
    This is one of a small handful I have read since the creator of the Outlanders (OL) series, James Axler, left them behind and the new “rotating door” pool of James Axlers (a la Deathlands) took over.
    All including this one have not read like a true OL book or held my attention like the other James Axler stories did. Characterisation, structure, depth of story and realism (if you can call Sci-Fi real) have all suffered tremendously as the new James Axler shows his total lack of knowledge and understanding of Outlanders as a whole. How many of the previous books has this writer (James Axler we are told inside) taken the time to read, three, two, maybe one maximum (and that most likely to have been one not written by James Axler) when researching the background for this book?
    Scarlet Dreams villain goes by the wonderful name “Ezili Coeur Noir”, the queen of all things dead. Her name is used so many times in the first eight pages I was left wondering if the name had been chosen specifically to help the writer reach his word total! Ms Noir has this special knack of being able to raise the dead to help her get most things done and not just any old dead either. We are quickly introduced to several Zombies who have a certain similarity to other well known Gold Eagle characters and who would have died some 80 years earlier and yet, are still so well preserved to be both recognisable and functional. Ms Noir is using these zombies to help in her search for “the red weed” a experimental bio-weapon that has the ability to wipe out all life on the planet –good job good old H.G.W is long dead, hidden in a lost redoubt. I bet the author was so proud of his originality here. The heroes of the book are depicted throughout as wooden, flat and soulless nothing like the vibrant, living characters long term OL readers have come to enjoy.
    Here James Axlers lack of background knowledge shows itself as he describes the main female character, Brigid Baptist, as slim, wearing Cowboy boots and having bright red hair. Sadly Brigid is described many times in past books as having a shapely, athletic body and golden red hair. Cowboy boots and Bright red hair belong to Krysty Wroth –the main female character from the Deathlands series!
    The main story line takes up about 50 pages of the 314 in the book, the remainder is several long, boring fight scenes that run to more than a dozen pages each where the heroes continue to shoot zombies in the head despite us being told –and them seeing, that this has no effect on them what so ever. The tactical mindset of the “real” Grant and Kane (leading male characters) would have had them shooting the knees and legs out from under the monsters –a simple answer that the author chooses to ignore to add length to his pointless fight scenes.
    A further section is taken up with a bizarre brothel run by a strange old woman that quickly finds one hero trapped in a painting, another being seduced by two strange foetal looking women who appear to him gorgeous and finally Brigid mesmerised by a third rate Mills & Boon romance novel. The origin of these strange looking women is not explored neither is the reason they are doing what they do. What we do find though is a legless voodoo priest in a wheelchair trapped in a picture also. It is here that we also discover that Ms Noir is none other than one third of a re-born Lilitu a major Overlord killed in an earlier book!
    One third?
    Yes!
    Somehow she has survived the destruction of the huge spaceship she was on and is sent crashing back to earth in an escape pod? So badly hurt –I believe so hurt that she is actually dead Mr. Axler, that the “rebirth sequencer” something that just happens to be part of the escape pod, has problems repairing her. The sequencer also finds problems with her memories as she has lived several lives. Unable to comprehend the situation it does what it can and decides to split her personality apart and make three new Lilitu’s? Confused yet? I was and still am?
    One part is Noir the zombie maker, the second the woman that runs the brothel and the third is an old woman found sleeping in part of the escape pod in the brothels basement!
    Anyhow, back to the climax of the book. The heroes discover that to kill Lilith/Noir for good and stop her releasing the “red weed” they have to get her inside a prototype fusion reactor located on the lower level of the “Red Weed” redoubt and activate it... Another boring zombie fight with lots of pointless headshots later we get inside the redoubt –to find it is now being flooded by the fire sprinklers activated by Lakesh back in the Cerberus redoubt to dissolve the red weed and reduce its effectiveness. A short silly fight ensues and Noir ends up in the reactor with seconds to spare and she dies...
    That’s it!
    The heroes then use the mat-trans to jump back to the Cerberus redoubt leaving the secret Redoubt Mike wide open and insecure only to find that the Cerberus redoubt is under attack, but that’s in the next book folks...
    Overall I was dissatisfied, bored and confused by this book. The author has thrown together several vague plots and bound them together with the most tenuous of links to a proven previous title in the series. It fails on so many levels and left me certain I would not be reading another book in the OL series, unless of course it was a re read of a previous book by the true master of Outlanders James Axler.
    Rating 2/10

    Edited (by Baz) to make review more JamesAxler.com friendly.
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    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
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    7/2/2011 1:36 PM
    It appears the Rik Hoskin didn't approve of my review on Amazon and had them remove it.

    Was it THAT close to the truth?
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    7/5/2011 10:19 AM
    Your review was back up a couple of days ago and then it was gone again.

    Must be because you compared Hoskin to Mark's work. Hoskin must think that there is a whole new fan base for Outlanders who has replaced all of Mark's fans and he doesn't want any reminders that Mark created the series.

    Or wrote the best books.

    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
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    7/5/2011 11:25 AM
    Blah Blah Blah Mark Good Rik Bad Blah Blah Blah

    Look, guys, I'm not saying you have to like any of the books published since Mark left the series. You surely don't. And I can't really argue the merits of this specific book, since honestly I am about three years behind in my Axler reading (but slowly catching up again).

    That being said, I think you are both very much aware that Mark has his own website. It's over at MarkEllisInk.com. You are both big fans of his (and hey, so am I), so that is the site for you.

    It seems like all either of you have done here in the last few years is piss in my pool. I am asking you nicely to please stop doing that. I am trying very hard to expand the content here, and to grow the membership. Your axe-grindy posts about the post-Ellis books have become every bit as tedious and predictable as any DL-weapons-and-clothing posts, and all you are doing is helping to create a negative environment that drives away new members.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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    7/5/2011 1:28 PM
    Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 19 Jun 2011 05:18 PM
    Jim, does someone really find a Deathlands book in one of the dorms?

    Sorry I missed this post.

    Yes they do. Let me find it in the book and I will give you a quote...
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


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    )3az )3aziah
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    7/5/2011 1:33 PM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 05 Jul 2011 11:25 AM
    Blah Blah Blah Mark Good Rik Bad Blah Blah Blah

    Look, guys, I'm not saying you have to like any of the books published since Mark left the series. You surely don't. And I can't really argue the merits of this specific book, since honestly I am about three years behind in my Axler reading (but slowly catching up again).

    That being said, I think you are both very much aware that Mark has his own website. It's over at MarkEllisInk.com. You are both big fans of his (and hey, so am I), so that is the site for you.

    It seems like all either of you have done here in the last few years is piss in my pool. I am asking you nicely to please stop doing that. I am trying very hard to expand the content here, and to grow the membership. Your axe-grindy posts about the post-Ellis books have become every bit as tedious and predictable as any DL-weapons-and-clothing posts, and all you are doing is helping to create a negative environment that drives away new members.

    Perhaps Ron you should do as you told me to do a few months back and actually read the book before you go trashing my review of it. How do you know I am wrong in what I say? Are my comments made without cause? Try reading the book first and THEN come back and trash my review.

    As for "pissing in my pool" over the last few years I belive is follk like Cerberus Man, Mikeclr, the Phantom and I that have kept this place alive. If all I can do is "piss in the pool" then its time I got out, dry off and watch the waters stagnate from the sidelines.

    Do you have a new side line job vetting Amazon reviews as it appears my review here, like there, is as welcome as a turd in a swimming pool.

    In the words of Depeche Mode "Enjoy the silence."

    Jim out...

    PS

    I have edited my review above to make it more JA.com friendly -no more mentions of that bad boy Mar... oh sorry can't say his name here any more can I?
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Cerberus Man
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    7/6/2011 9:03 AM
    Blah-blah-blah, there's so much more important topics of discussion on this board that you guys are keeping from happening, blah-blah-blah, let's focus on machine guns and new boots, blah-blah-blah, you're driving the intellectual crowd back to reading The New Yorker instead of discussing stickies blah-blah-blah.

    Bull.

    People have been comparing the revolving door DL writers to Laurence James since Day One without a single bit of bitching from you.

    All the posts about DL characters who need new guns or clothes you let stand without comment. You always have and you probably always will

    Your rules are that members are not to name call or insult or other members but you do both whenever it suits you.

    A couple of years ago, you allowed a crazy racist moron with multiple screen names have his run of this fan site of yours without standing up to him. You were so desperate for activity here, you encouraged him.

    Do you honestly think there are OL readers who just now discovered the series through the books written by Hoskin and so all the posts about MARKMARKMARKELLISELLISELLIS will upset them and sent them home sobbing?

    Interesting that when long-time members like Baz, Mike, Chris, Daniel and myself make a stand about how we feel concerning the rotten treatment of MARK ELLIS by GE and how in our opinion the series MARK ELLIS created isn't being served by the standard GE revolving door system of writers, then YOU make a stand about US making a stand.

    So us being fans of a writer is worth it to you to drive long term members away from the board?

    Why don't you apply that same standard to the Laurence James fans?

    Baz posted once that your behavior is draconian.

    In my opinion it's closer to being bi-polar, but I think the more appropriate word is hypocritical.

    If you weren't, then you'd lay down the law that no DL book could ever be compared to one written by Laurence ever again.

    In the case of Scarlet Dream, the plot is similar to a book written by Mark, featuring characters created by Mark, tying in the plot in with an earlier book written by Mark.

    How could you expect anybody NOT to draw comparisions?

    So--hypocritical is most appropriate word.

    You want to ban me after this post, go ahead.

    That won't change your hypocrisy.

    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
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    7/6/2011 10:20 AM
    You and Baz have both completely missed the point. It's not the review comparing the book to Mark. You'll notice I let that review stand completely unedited and without comment (although Baz has apparently decided to go back and edit himself). It was the coming back a week later by both of you to take additional swipes without provocation. That's not "taking a stand", that's just crappy behavior. You can call my a hypocrite all you like, but your behavior on this forum has been consistently troll-ish for as long as I can remember. Can you point to anything positive you have contributed here? Ever? You have a very clear axe to grind. You will be happier grinding it somewhere else more receptive.
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    7/6/2011 12:13 PM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 06 Jul 2011 10:20 AM 
    You can call my a hypocrite all you like, but your behavior on this forum has been consistently troll-ish for as long as I can remember. Can you point to anything positive you have contributed here? Ever? 


    Not only will I call you a hypocrite, I'll call you a liar.

    Instead of addressing the issues I raised, you post groundless accusations and lies about me.

    You ignore the many, many posts I made over the years about the Annunaki, stealth aircraft, UFOS and physics so you can score a cheap point for the newer members who can't refer to earlier posts of mine since they've been deleted in the many revisions of this site.

    Trollish behavior like the kind you allowed One Eye Vengeance and his many racsist sock puppets to practice and then only put a stop to it when the ass hole started threatening people, me, you and Mark among them?

    And now when weeks go by without any activity on this fan thiing of yours, when something the slightest bit controversial pops up, you throw a drama queen hissy fit and make what has been posted an even a bigger deal than it was ever intended to be, drawing even more attention to it just so you can pretend to be a bad-ass.

    I've lost all respect for you, Ron. I'll never be back.

    Enjoy the fascinsating topics brought up by the great new expanded membership.





    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
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    7/6/2011 12:33 PM
    Oddly enough, I never had the impression you had any respect for me to begin with.

    As for OEC/OEV/Whatever, I'm not entirely clear how my continually banning him under (at last count) more than a dozen different aliases counts as allowing his behavior.

    In any case, good journeys. I am sure you will be very happy elsewhere.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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    7/6/2011 12:44 PM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 06 Jul 2011 10:20 AM

    You and Baz have both completely missed the point.

    although Baz has apparently decided to go back and edit himself...

    It was the coming back a week later by both of you to take additional swipes without provocation...

    but your behavior on this forum has been consistently troll-ish for as long as I can remember....

    Have I, where exactly have I missed the point?

    I edited the review to remove all mention of Mark or Rik and replaced it with the authors "name", this fits in more with your JA.com theme and removes any mistake of conflict.

    I came back simply to let folk know that my review had been taken down by Amazon, where was I taking a swipe or trying to cause provocation. Actually who was I trying to provoke? The last posts here by folk other than myself, the phantom or Cerberus man have been made weeks ago by one post fly by nights who have most likely forgotten their passwords and the address of this site.

    I take it that your last remark is aimed at both of us as you started the post aimed at both of us? Again I remind you of all the threads I have started and took part in that a serious scientific and intelligent content over the years and how I have on several occasions took the full force attack of sock puppets you have allowed to stay around here without giving back what was given.

    If that is your view then as I said in my post above I will get out of your pissy pool, dry off and watch as the waters go stagnant. Sadly this new revamp that has most likely taken you a long time to develop, will be empty and hollow in the months to come.

    I'm out of here.

    Jim
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Wordsmith-reprise
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    7/6/2011 3:47 PM

    Jim, if you're still out there, please do e-mail me with the reference to the DL book in Scarlet Dream if you can find it again. I can't find a copy of the book in this small burg.

    cathyj@nbnet.nb.ca

    Ta.

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    7/7/2011 4:59 AM
    Just for the record--

    The charge that Cerberus Man or Jim (Baz) ever acted in a manner remotely trollish during their years of participatiion on this site is totally unfounded and completely untrue.

    A number of trolls rampaged through here over the years (one of whom was inexplicably allowed to stay despite repeated and blatant violations of the rules), but neither CM or Baz were, by any possible stretch of reality, among that number.

    Noit no how. Not no way.
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    7/9/2011 12:36 PM

    I think there's plenty of blame to go around here. Baz's review was harsh, edging into insulting, which is probably why Amazon took it down. He could've easily avoided comparing Rik to Mark while still pointing out all the book's failings (and there are many - see below).

    On the other hand, Ron, I think your reaction, while warranted, was a little over the top. You're the site owner - you're supposed to be setting the example for us peons. You could have been a good deal more diplomatic about his review - sarcasm: "Gee, biased much?" or polite moderator mode: "I think this review is overly confrontational and unfair, and I think you should tone it down a bit." If you really wanted to unload on him, you could have handled it in private. Imagine if some new guy comes along and sees this; what would he think?

    After that, it devolves into sniping, accusations, and name-calling, at which point I doubt very little could have been done to salvage the situation. You should all be ashamed of yourselves - you're all adults, and yet you're acting like children.


    Cathy: I stopped by Barnes and Noble earlier and skimmed through a copy (they still had several in stock). They find "a well thumbed paperback with a man's booted feet on the bright red cover" in the barracks - an obvious reference to a DL novel, for those of us familiar with the series, but more like an easter egg than anything.

    And yes, he did include several zombies just as Baz described. I honestly can't think of a word to describe my feelings on that - somewhere between "WTF?" and complete disgust. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish there - I'm sure it was intended as an inside joke, but it fails miserably.

    Ron Miles
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    7/9/2011 5:09 PM
    Locking this because no further good can come of it. (Well, not like any good came of it in the first place). Not trying to stifle dissent, feel free to email or message me with any comments or concerns.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents


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