Things that bug me.
Last Post 7/5/2015 11:13 PM by Rusty. 92 Replies.
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Ithaqua
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11/12/2012 1:13 AM

    I really like Deathlands and all of the characters, I'm going through them in order and just began book 80. I started reading the books at 0. I have also been go through these at about one a week so I have to admit that I am getting the stories much faster than those who had to wait for the release of the books over decades.

    Anyway, there are a few plot types and tropes where I am starting to groan when they pop up.

    Companions jump to a location in a wasteland with no signs of life, food or water and then instead of jumping out they leave the redoubt for no good reason. Everything that happens after that point makes me want to say "What did you expect morons?". Hell, if they care so little for their well being in these stories, why should I?

    Companions come to a ville, the baron is a dick and forces them to do something against their will. Yes most barons are dicks but its a tired idea to base anpther dl book on. There have been some really good stories with this plot in the series, all I'm saying is no more for a while.

    Doc losing his mind. No more, please. It was an interesting idea that he is unstable, but the character trait is so randomly used as to be almost meaningless.

    Mildred being a sort of Deathlands Google. Is it too much to ask that there are things from the 20th century she doesn't know about? I know she functions as exposition device to explain things to the reader but after reading about her it's less likely that she came in second in the olympics for shooting and more likely that she was the biggest winner ever on Jeapardy. Can't she just say "I don't know." once in a while. She's the party's very own Cliff Clavin. I like her as a character but she can be a bore.

    Stickies. Cool idea but lets get some common ground on them. Are they stupid but cunning animals or can they speak English? Do they have arms or tentacles? Are they drawn to fire or not? I buy that there can be different types of stickies, but the companions never really comment on the differences when encountering them for the first time. (A good editor or at least one who cared would have caught this long ago.)

    Ryan's scarf. Does he have it still or not? In some books he does, in most books it's never mentioned. He also rarely uses it even if it is mentioned.

    I really miss the continuity of the older books. Though, I like many of the newer stories better. The old books hinged on being too dark for my tastes. Many will argue with me on this I'm sure.

    Minor points really considering how much enjoyment I'm getting out of the series.

    Also, why the hell is it not more popular? I work as a game designer/illustrator and have worked on properties way less interesting and fleshed out than Deathlands. Look how popular Fallout is, and now Wastlands 2 is getting made. All Deathlands got was one bad made for tv movie. As a property it has a lot more value than that. Does Gold Eagle just not know how to expand the market or are they happy with where it's at?

     

     

     

     

    Maximus
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    11/12/2012 12:00 PM

    I agree with everything you wrote.

     

    But, reading all these books back-to-back, you will burn out faster, and see all the issues you mentioned. 

     

    I actually like a break between books, unless it was one that was outstanding. Or, like some of the authors have done well: trilogy's or duologies. That hasn't been done since Alan Phillipson's fantastic Xilbaba storyline.

     

    Ithaqua
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    11/15/2012 12:22 AM

    The other side effect of going through the books so quickly is that I now say "Fire Blast!" and "Dark Night!" more often than I should.

     

    Ithaqua
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    11/15/2012 12:22 AM

    The other side effect of going through the books so quickly is that I now say "Fire Blast!" and "Dark Night!" more often than I should.

     

    )3az )3aziah
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    11/16/2012 6:35 AM
    even when you post...



    Jim

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    Ithaqua
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    11/16/2012 1:13 PM
    Well played British Bloke.
    )3az )3aziah
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    11/17/2012 2:51 PM

    Posted By Ithaqua on 11/16/2012 1:13:09 PM
    Well played British Bloke.


    You're welcome.

    And welcome aboard.

    Jim
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    Kerrick
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    11/18/2012 12:54 AM
    The one that really bugs the crap out of me is #1: The wasteland. Sure, making a double-jump is hard, but seriously? Just wait around a day or two. There's absolutely no reason they should go wandering through a wasteland for what could be days on end (Salvation Road) with no destination in mind.

    Stickies are the victim of multiple authors and no common source of knowledge (as in, many authors didn't read the early books either because they didn't care or couldn't find them). Sad, but understandable.

    Ryan's scarf kind of fell by the wayside, another casualty of Multiple Author Syndrome. Even LJ rarely used it, so it's no surprise that it was forgotten.

    I'm not sure that the older books were "darker" so much as "grittier". LJ definitely had a vision of what DL was supposed to be, and he was pretty consistent with it. For a post-apocalypse series, it worked well.
    Ithaqua
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    11/18/2012 2:22 AM
    It should be noted that everything I write here is just my opinion for the sake of conversation.

    It is barely excusable for an author not to be familiar with the world in which they are writing, it is inexcusable for an editor to be likewise ignorant of that world. I put the blame right smack on the editors of DL. At any of the companies I have worked for it would have been inexcusable to make so many mistakes as far as the basic IP went. But again, I can only speculate that the publisher doesn't really care about DL aside from the barest of oversight. If they did, DL would be a bigger property.

    By "darker" I meant really much more time spent on torture and the killing of innocents. It seemed to have more child and baby killing just to show the bad guys are bad. I get it, they're bad. No part of me enjoys the details of child killing...that's just not entertainment to me. I've had friends stop reading the books because of it, which is sad, because they really are fun reads. I just finished book 80 and sure there were kids mixed in with the "fodder" sent to die in the raid on the ville, but they're deaths weren't lingered over in perverse detail. Oh and having Doc sex up pigs? That would never happen in todays deathlands books. I think it's a move for the better. It's just not what I want in a pulp story. Conan never sexed up pigs, Doc Savage never sexed up pigs, The Shadow? No pig sex there either. Doc was messed up enough by losing his family, throwing in the pig sex was just gratutious and way over board. While I'm on the subject of Doc...the way Lori Quint was written out of the stories seemed rushed and really out of character. To have her turned into a total cheating bitch out of the blue just didn't wash with me, it made no psychological sense.

    I'm loving the books though and at one a week up to book 80 so far I am nowhere near burning out on them. I do read other books inbetween them though. I just finished the Newsfeed series by Mira Grant, Awesome post zombie apocolypse series, very original.
    Maximus
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    11/18/2012 10:13 AM

    I like this new member.

     

    Welcome aboard you insightful, intelligent, and not afraid to type your honest feelings on the DL series. There are not enough of us here.

    All your points are valid. Since you are only on book #80, I am glad to inform you, that you have some GREAT DL books coming your way soon that will somewhat surpass the original. (May the great and vastly talented author of Laurence James rest in peace!)

     

    But what are your thoughts on the Outlanders series? I suppose you haven't gotten around to trying those?

    Ithaqua
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    11/18/2012 11:55 AM
    I love Mark Ellis' work and I'm looking forward to getting to the Outlanders series. I was sad to hear that "suits" mucked it up with their thoughtless bad editing choices but I remain hopeful. I like the premis.
    )3az )3aziah
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    11/19/2012 6:48 AM

    Posted By Ithaqua on 11/18/2012 2:22:35 AM

    ...Oh and having Doc sex up pigs?

    ...Doc was messed up enough by losing his family, throwing in the pig sex was just gratutious and way over board.

    ..the way Lori Quint was written out of the stories seemed rushed and really out of character. To have her turned into a total cheating bitch out of the blue just didn't wash with me, it made no psychological sense.

    Greetings,

    Doc and the pig thing was put in by Laurence to show just how sick, perverted and Sadistic Strasser was. Doc arrived in DL from the past, a past that was not his and into a world he understood less than the one he had been passed on from. He was mixed up, unstable and as a result an ideal "fool" for Strasser to act out his sick ideals on.

    As for Lori, she was the result of a last minute rewrite by Laurence after submitting the original draft and being told by the powers that be that she had to go and in that book. Laurence had some interesting ideas for the group that GE just ignored and forbid him from doing. Had he been allowed to continue with his ideas -and had he not got ill and had to retire from writing, DL as we know it would have been totally different to what is now is.

    Jim

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    Maximus
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    11/19/2012 9:15 AM

    I think the 'pig thing' was gross, but it didn't turn me off to the series. I always expected, and at times, was surprised at the carnage and sickness - but thats what I expect in a cruel and twisted world such as this one.

     

    That's why they don't call it 'Semi-cruel and sadistic Lands.' 

     

    What changes, if he were allowed, would Laurence James have done, then?

    )3az )3aziah
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    11/19/2012 1:08 PM
    Im replying with my phone here and will post a proper reply tomorrow.

    Jim
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    Ithaqua
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    11/19/2012 9:36 PM
    Once again, it seems the publisher is the main reason for the series' problems.
    The pig thing didn't turn me off of the series, it just turned me off...but I don't enjoy the overly sick parts, it's just my opinion. I like horror, but not torture.
    What James did with the series was awesome, he layed a fantastic ground work and I am in his debt...there are just parts of his style I don't like.
    I am dying to know what the series would have been.
    Kerrick
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    11/19/2012 9:50 PM
    Re: The "darker" thing... I think it's as much a product of the times as the author. Things were a lot different in the 80s (I don't know if you're old enough to have lived during that time) - we had the Mad Max movies, Rambo, the Chuck Norris Vietnam flicks, ninja moveis, the Cold War... in that culture, a grim and gritty DL fit perfectly.

    The series has shifted over time to be a little lighter and less depressing... less brutal, I guess you could say. Again, a product of the times - we're more poltiically correct these days, the Cold War is long over, and the US has become much more... companionable, I guess, with the rest of the world. These days, grim and gritty novels or series are few and far between, even post-apoc ones. Newsflesh is a perfect example - the zombie apocalypse happened, but we survived and continue to live more or less normal lives (unlike, say, Dawn of the Dead or Resident Evil, which are just hopeless battles for survival).

    On a side note, the Newsflesh trilogy is almost a metaphor for the US today - we suffered a major terrorist attack that forever changed how we live, but we survived and continue to persevere, despite all the inconveniences we have to deal with. I seriously doubt she intended it that way, but it's oddly appropriate.
    Ithaqua
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    11/19/2012 10:03 PM
    Oh, my time was the 80s. I graduated in 84. I LOVE dawn of the dead, both of them. I also am a fan of most of the resident evil movies. I just don't like torture or the current trend of "Torture porn.". That said a torture pron series that tortures the 1% I could get into.
    Ithaqua
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    11/19/2012 10:47 PM
    I worry that I may come across as a hater, but trust me, after 81 DL books I am not a hater. There are just some obvious flaws and personal opinions that I feel like commenting on. Deathlands is now tied with Doc Savage as my favorite pulp series.
    I don't use pulp as a dirty word either. Pulp is like a good tv show...many creators and writers.
    Why isn't Deathlands a major property?
    Ithaqua
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    11/19/2012 11:45 PM
    To push your analogy further Kerrick, I think Mira Grant (not her real name) may have intended it. The government after all perpetuates the horror of the apocolypse for it's own end...patriot act anyone? The miltary build up is not to protect the homeland, it's to back corperate interests abroad (look up Smedly Butlerm it goes back a long way). The patriot act is to silence any dissenters as terrorists. We in America already live in horrifying times. Rome, France, Russia...and soon America.
    Maximus
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    11/20/2012 4:02 PM
    Yeah, we've been spouting about the editors here until its run out our ears.
    And no, you don't come across as a hater. Just someone with gray matter betwixt their ears.
    Maximus
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    11/20/2012 4:03 PM
    Will you be writing reviews on these books here after you read them?
    Ithaqua
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    11/21/2012 1:10 PM
    I wish I had the time. I will say though that recently everytime I finish a DL book that I really like and look up the author it seems to be Alan Philipson. There is something very fresh about his tales. The other thing I like about Alan Philipson's DL stories is that he seems to know the world and stories place themselves well within the companion's history. I feel like I'm reading part of a bigger story and not a throw away "monster of the week" filler book. He has even addressed one of my main complaints (That I think I forgot to mention in the initial post) 100 years is nowhere near enough time for all these muties to have "evolved". He comes a cross as an author who cares and therefore I care more about the characters and plot when I read them. People tend to put down pulp as not real "literature" but the fact is that good story telling is good story telling. I have a 4 year old and watch her shows with her even in cartoons you can tell the difference when the people who make them care. Now if only we can get the publisher to care. I swear they published the last two Alan Philipson books I've read out of order. 80 & 82. (maybe they care now, I don't know since I am still in DL's past.)
    The Phantom
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    11/21/2012 2:32 PM

    You are right. 82 was written first.


    Ron Miles
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    11/21/2012 2:38 PM
    Yeah, what happened there was they wound up with two Doc-centered stories back-to-back in the pipeline, so they flipped the release order of those two books to break it up. Unfortunately they did not do the necessary rewrites to make that make sense.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Maximus
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    11/22/2012 1:18 AM

    And another and most big of unfortunates is : Alan doesn't pen DL anymore.

     

    But he left with a HUGE finale! 

    Ithaqua
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    11/22/2012 2:41 AM
    Well that sucks.
    )3az )3aziah
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    11/22/2012 6:42 AM
    Sorry for the delay folks but RL got in the way once more...

    so what did Laurence want to do with the series and GE didn't? Well from what I can recall him telling me all those years ago was this...

    The group would have settled down on the ranch where Jak met Cristina and the child would have lived. J.B & mildred would have had a child also !!
    Ryan and J.B's wander lust would have kept them busy as they checked out each of the redoubt codes they discovered on the hand written list found in one of the early books, some would prove useful whilst others would lead on to adventures new. Mildred would discover a way of extracting the gateway codes from the redoubts computers giving them even more places to visit.
    Each book would have some but not all the group involved -they would have to leave someone behind to look after the kids!

    Sadly GE didn't want to go with any of this as they prefered the book for book "jump into the unknown" method -which makes me now think they had plans to move to a multi writer series ala Bolan, long before Laurence had to put down his pen!

    Sorry its not more exciting but I (and in my opinion only) think DL would have been a far better series had it not gone the way it has. Then again who is not to say that a future writer would not have done the whole rider, Reaper tale and moved the group back to what they are doing now?

    Jim

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    AP
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    11/22/2012 12:10 PM

    Ithaqua,

    Thanks for the kind words. As to my leaving DL after ten years and GE after 25, all things good and bad must end. Before I wrote the Xibalba books I was feeling burned out and trapped (ghosting for GE is a hand-to-mouth situation because of the low pay), and rather than write books I didn't care about—or worse, books that might shame me—I decided to pull the plug after the duology and find another job, which I did in short order. I've never felt sorry about the decision. I'm making a solid (not borderline) middle class wage, and the work (developmental editing other people's books) is much easier: I can even do it while listening to Sportstalk radio (Go 'Hawks!). I have a lot to be grateful for today.

     

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.

    AP
    Ithaqua
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    11/22/2012 9:10 PM

    Hawks, eh? You wouldn;t happen to be in the Seattle area would you? I'm about 30 miles north of there but moving closer next month.

    It's a shame they didn;t have the companions working from a base of operations. Had the series been mine to run that's one of the first things I would have done. It would have given them a purpose, also instead of killing off every nice/useful character they come across they could have started their own low key, high functioning hidden ville. Maybe like the one John Galt had going in Atlas Shrugged, of course a DL version.

        

    Ithaqua
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    11/22/2012 9:11 PM

    Hawks, eh? You wouldn;t happen to be in the Seattle area would you? I'm about 30 miles north of there but moving closer next month.

    It's a shame they didn;t have the companions working from a base of operations. Had the series been mine to run that's one of the first things I would have done. It would have given them a purpose, also instead of killing off every nice/useful character they come across they could have started their own low key, high functioning hidden ville. Maybe like the one John Galt had going in Atlas Shrugged, of course a DL version.

        

    Kerrick
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    11/23/2012 11:26 AM
    So basically, it would've been like Outlanders? There certainly would have been better continuity (the bane of Gold Eagle books)... I can see the companions in the "war room":

    JB: "So where are we going this week?"

    Ryan: "Mildred's uncovered a new redoubt in Pennsylvania, near our old stomping grounds. Thought it might be worth checking out."

    Jak: "I go this time. Jenny teething, can't sleep."

    Krysty: "Oh sure, leave the women behind."

    Etc.
    Maximus
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    11/29/2012 9:45 AM

    Although after over 25 years of DL, I still like the mystery aspect of the unknown jump factor.

     

    I suppose that by now they could have figured it out, and developed a base of operations, (perhaps the blueprint of Cerberus?), but I'd like either a spin-off series or just a HUGE leap to the gigantic elephant in the room - chron jumping.

     

    This could be utilized until the cows come home.

    Ithaqua
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    12/6/2012 9:55 PM
    JB's pockets...Capacious: Capable of containing a large quantity; spacious or roomy. Pick another word! Really!
    Maximus
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    12/6/2012 11:30 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.
    RPGjunkie
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    12/7/2012 3:22 AM
    Posted By Maximus on 12/6/2012 11:30:38 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.

    Well, every new book has got to be someone's first experience with the series, right? I don't mind brief torrents of back story, so long as it's not too long and doesn't detract from the scene at hand. 


    And while I've got the floor, so to speak, I have to know which novel the whole "Doc sexing pigs" thing is from. That's just too bizarre to ignore, though I'm sure it was added for a legitimate plot reason, and not just an experiment in exploitation. (I'm fairly new to Gold Eagle, and my collection doesn't have missing pieces so much as it has cavernous black holes, vast expanses of nothingness just waiting to be filled, which is why I don't possess a more encyclopedic knowledge of past novels.)

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    12/7/2012 3:24 AM
    Posted By Maximus on 12/6/2012 11:30:38 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.


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    12/7/2012 3:24 AM
    Posted By Maximus on 12/6/2012 11:30:38 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.

    Well, every new book has got to be someone's first experience with the series, right? I don't mind brief torrents of back story, so long as it's not too long and doesn't detract from the scene at hand. 


    And while I've got the floor, so to speak, I have to know which novel the whole "Doc sexing pigs" thing is from. That's just too bizarre to ignore, though I'm sure it was added for a legitimate plot reason, and not just an experiment in exploitation. (I'm fairly new to Gold Eagle, and my collection doesn't have missing pieces so much as it has cavernous black holes, vast expanses of nothingness just waiting to be filled, which is why I don't possess a more encyclopedic knowledge of past novels.)

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    12/7/2012 3:25 AM
    Posted By Maximus on 12/6/2012 11:30:38 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.


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    12/7/2012 3:27 AM
    Posted By Maximus on 12/6/2012 11:30:38 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.

    Well, every new book has got to be someone's first experience with the series, right? I don't mind brief torrents of back story, so long as it's not too long and doesn't detract from the scene at hand. 


    And while I've got the floor, so to speak, I have to know which novel the whole "Doc sexing pigs" thing is from. That's just too bizarre to ignore, though I'm sure it was added for a legitimate plot reason, and not just an experiment in exploitation. (I'm fairly new to Gold Eagle, and my collection doesn't have missing pieces so much as it has cavernous black holes, vast expanses of nothingness just waiting to be filled, which is why I don't possess a more encyclopedic knowledge of past novels.)


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    12/7/2012 3:27 AM
    Posted By Maximus on 12/6/2012 11:30:38 PM
    Yeah, and my eyes glaze over when the writer starts telling us that Mildred was once an olympic shooter, yada, yada, yada for the millionth time.

    Well, every new book has got to be someone's first experience with the series, right? I don't mind brief torrents of back story, so long as it's not too long and doesn't detract from the scene at hand. 


    And while I've got the floor, so to speak, I have to know which novel the whole "Doc sexing pigs" thing is from. That's just too bizarre to ignore, though I'm sure it was added for a legitimate plot reason, and not just an experiment in exploitation. (I'm fairly new to Gold Eagle, and my collection doesn't have missing pieces so much as it has cavernous black holes, vast expanses of nothingness just waiting to be filled, which is why I don't possess a more encyclopedic knowledge of past novels.)


    Kerrick
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    12/7/2012 10:31 AM
    They kinda have to do that, Max - it's called "writing for a series". Readers should be able to pick up any book, at any point, and have a clear idea of who the characters are. Thus, the need for the intros in every single book. Tedious, but a necessary evil.
    Maximus
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    12/9/2012 11:09 AM
    I disagree. I've read great series that don't do that. If the reader wants to find out more, than the writer was smart enough to give them only enough to go back and pay for the past other books to find out more or catch up.
    Ithaqua
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    12/26/2012 11:27 PM
    Ok, I don;t really remember the book...I'm going through 2-3 a week now but in one book Jak throws one of his, say it with me now "LEAF BLADED THROWING KNIVES" 200 yards! Let me say that again...TWO HUNDRED YARDS! I have thrown knives, I have thrown a lot of things, I have even thrown one of those disk things that go forever, I don't think I have thrown anything 200 yards.
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    1/2/2013 7:11 AM
    Posted By Ithaqua on 12/26/2012 11:27:18 PM
    Ok, I don;t really remember the book...I'm going through 2-3 a week now but in one book Jak throws one of his, say it with me now "LEAF BLADED THROWING KNIVES" 200 yards! Let me say that again...TWO HUNDRED YARDS! I have thrown knives, I have thrown a lot of things, I have even thrown one of those disk things that go forever, I don't think I have thrown anything 200 yards.


    Oh yes I recall that one and i also recall several of us having a good laugh over that when it first appeared.

     Jim

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    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Ithaqua
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    1/2/2013 11:45 PM
    The number one thing that bugs me? That AP won't be writing anymore books. Finished Doom Helix with a great sense of sadness. AP in my opinion was the best. I like the other authors, but none compare. I wish we had AP at my last company as a writer, or indeed any of the companies I have worked at/founded.
    Ithaqua
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    1/10/2013 12:37 AM
    O.k. seriously. I am now starting book 100, and I started at book 0. What the HELL are the companions looking for?!?! I mean even Gilligan wanted off of the island! What do they want? Why do they keep making stupid blind jumps? Why do they make these consisntantly idiotic choices and then bitch about them? Why do they leave when they find a good thing? I can only imagine that they are all seriously mentaly ill. It's really they only option at this point.
    I get that it's a series run by a "for profit" company that just wants to sell books, but at what point do they not think that maybe, people who read these books are not morons and might want at least a plausible motivation for the characters?
    As I have mentioned before I love the Doc Savage books. Doc Savage and his crew set up to help people in need. Folks would come to him and they would go off on an adventure. See, that's a motivation. The stories varied from interesting and fun, to stupid, but at least I knew why they where doing it.
    DL is starting to become a joke. I'll still read them but the pleasure gets guiltier with each one.
    after 100 books I feel I know the characters better than the editors at this point. The companions want a just world, they want freedom and a rule of just laws, but everytime they get in a position to make this happen they LEAVE! For no good reason!
    Maybe now is the time the series actually tries to build in some continuity, like they had in the early days. I vote that they make jumps to find people and resources to start building a new just world. Set up a base, make it grow, get refugees, fight off invaders and cold hearts, find people with talent and those who would help make that vision happen. At this point the companions have seen and done too much to just be a slack jawed hicks at the mat trans' mercy. Anyone agree?
    Ron Miles
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    1/10/2013 7:49 AM
    The only thing you said in that entire post that GE cares about is "I'll still read them..."
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Maximus
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    1/10/2013 12:46 PM

    You both have solid points. Ron is absolutely correct.

    And the other person has made solid points too. Yeah, the companions have been making stupid choices for some time now. No reason to jump sometimes. Taking stupid chances when they don't need to. And on and on and on...

     

    The problem is: Multiple writers. Which is both a blessing and a curse.

     

    No continuity with multiple writers. But sometimes a new writer comes around and shows himself to be so damn talented in writing a post-holocaust adventure, that us readers can forget the last few crappy, half-assed ones.

     

    A good editor would point out these flaws to the writer. Have them pen a way for the companions to have a REASON to jump or leave a perfectly lovely, hidden and outfitted redoubt or ville. 

     

    We know that the series has to continue, so they leave or jump. But you are right. They need a 'final destination' to reach for. They have been looking for that 'idyllic locale' long enough - and have found it quite a few times! - but leave anyway.

    The Phantom
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    1/10/2013 1:23 PM
    Posted By Ithaqua on 1/10/2013 12:37:00 AM


    Maybe now is the time the series actually tries to build in some continuity, like they had in the early days. I vote that they make jumps to find people and resources to start building a new just world. Set up a base, make it grow, get refugees, fight off invaders and cold hearts, find people with talent and those who would help make that vision happen. At this point the companions have seen and done too much to just be a slack jawed hicks at the mat trans' mercy. Anyone agree?

    Sounds like you should read Outlanders, starting from the beginning.


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    1/10/2013 1:32 PM
    For all its worth, despite my last comment I do know that The Powers That Be actually would prefer to have the kind of continuity we all desire. I know that one particular author has gone so far as to offer to write a Two year Plan that would map out all of the major beats for a full cycle of stories that would contain actual character growth and a targeted plot. Each individual story would still remain standalone, but taken together there would be strong book-to-book continuity and an overall story arc that would eventually reach a climax and conclusion while at the same time setting in motion another similar cycle.

    The basic problem is that with a publishing rate of six books per year, no single author can reliably crank out that many stories by themselves. From a basic logistical standpoint it takes a minimum of two authors, and more likely three or four, to maintain that kind of publishing schedule. Deadlines are a serious issue, and if you don't have a full stable of authors who can consistently hit the deadlines (which unfortunately is not really the case currently), a publisher cannot commit to that kind of tight story continuity. And so, we don't have it.

    You might think, well why don't they just scale back to a more sustainable publishing rate? Surely three quality books per year would be better than six mostly sub-par books per year? I honestly don't know the concrete answer to that, except to say that Gold Eagle has managed to remain profitable despite the downturns in the publishing industry in recent years. Story quality aside, GE appears to be very good at what they do (and one of the very few publishers still doing it). At the end of the day I suspect that quantity trumps quality when it comes to the bottom line.
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    1/11/2013 1:15 AM

    Well said, Ron!

     

    I'll bet you're right on the money. 

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    1/11/2013 11:43 AM

    To what Ron wrote about one author having a planned story arc: Depending on 'which' author that would be, that could be either extremely awesome...or extremely horrendous.

    My vote would be for Chuck Rogers. In just two amazing books, he's more than proven he has the writing cajones to take this sometimes tired 'ol DL series to a new level. Both in story concept and vision, insofar as one author could do in a somewhat long story-arc.

     

    The books obviously sale, or GE would not have made more of them per year. Greenbacks are the bottom line in any business. But I'd much rather have less and better quality any day of the week.

     

    In my opinion, the best DL by far in 2012 was Hell Road Warriors. Although 4 of them were written by Victor Milan, and 1 by Andy Boot. (Which was the worst stinker of the year, and pretty much the entire series, as voted by us.) So Nick Polatta or John Helfers didn't get a vote, due to them not having typed a DL last year. Shame. I really liked Helfers twin books. He more than proved he has serious talent and a bright future in DL. Hope to see more of his work.

    RPGjunkie
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    1/24/2013 1:09 AM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 1/10/2013 1:32:08 PM


    The basic problem is that with a publishing rate of six books per year, no single author can reliably crank out that many stories by themselves. From a basic logistical standpoint it takes a minimum of two authors, and more likely three or four, to maintain that kind of publishing schedule. Deadlines are a serious issue, and if you don't have a full stable of authors who can consistently hit the deadlines (which unfortunately is not really the case currently), a publisher cannot commit to that kind of tight story continuity. And so, we don't have it.



    Ron, you say that writing six novels a year would be difficult for any author to accomplish, but Laurence James did just that, year after year. And so did Mark Ellis with the Outlanders series, and at a time when the word count for each book was bigger. Sure, the closest thing we've seen lately is Vic Milan's impressive string of four consecutive novels, but I really think that a focused and dedicated author can write half a dozen solid books per year. I don't know how far in advance novels are completed before their publication, but given a nice head start before a deadline, one of these authors (preferably Chuck Rogers, if his contract would allow for so many books) could definitely craft a compelling narrative arc.

    Even if Gold Eagle doesn't want one single author for the entire series, why not dedicate an entire year to a single writer's story arc? After his six novels, the baton is passed to the next writer, who pens six in a row, etc. This way we'd get to see more compelling stories spread out across a few books, and an arc which could come to a natural close, instead of cramming a conclusion into the final paragraph of the book because the editors decided to emphasize action over a coherent story. 

    Ithaqua
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    1/24/2013 7:45 PM
    As someone who has worked with a shared universe, games not books, all it takes is a good editor, a comprehensive style guide and a company who gives a damn to do everything we want from DL, my guess is that Gold Eagle is missing 2 of these.
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    1/25/2013 1:12 AM
    And you'd be spot-on bloody right, Ithaqua!
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    1/25/2013 9:55 AM
    Bah, you could do it with multiple authors - all it requires is communicaton. Elliis, Odom, Collins did it when LJ retired, but as Mark mentioned one time, the new ex-ed discouraged it when he took over because he wanted more episodic stories. Obviously things have changed now, but it shouldn't be hard for a couple writers to come together for short story arcs, interspersed with some standalone books.
    The Phantom
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    1/25/2013 1:10 PM

    With the technology available these days, it's easier than ever for authors to be able to communicate and compare notes and whatnot.

    Heck, with skype alone, it would be cake for authors and editors to have a conference to hammer out continuity and story developments, and fact checking and so forth.


    OneFallenShadow
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    2/12/2013 4:28 PM

    RPGJunkie, the novel is Pilgrimage to Hell.  There are also numerous times in various other books where he recalls what he was forced to do and kinda "drifts" from his "normal" demeanor.

    applesauce
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    3/12/2013 8:45 AM
    I have now read the first 39 books. I am reading 3 or 4 a week. What drives me nuts more than anything else is there not a single backpack in all of deathlands sheeeeeesh. You would think they would all use one packed with ammo food and water. It is like the most basic thing even the most stupid person would do. Okay and they have worn the same clothes all be it one change, they have to be falling off. Yes I am female and every time they shower or swim then climb back into their filthy clothes I cringe LOL

    applesauce
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    3/12/2013 12:35 PM
    Posted By applesauce on 3/12/2013 8:45:11 AM
    I have now read the first 39 books. I am reading 3 or 4 a week. What drives me nuts more than anything else is there not a single backpack in all of deathlands sheeeeeesh. You would think they would all use one packed with ammo food and water. It is like the most basic thing even the most stupid person would do. Okay and they have worn the same clothes all be it one change, they have to be falling off. Yes I am female and every time they shower or swim then climb back into their filthy clothes I cringe LOL

    applesauce

    Welcome aboard,

    It is nice to see another girlie around the board, it will save wordsmith feeling all alone...

    The group don't carry backpacks (at least in the first 30 odd books) as the original writer (Laurence James) had the view that "they who travel light travel fastest". I discussed this at length with him and his view was six people are not going to fight a war so why force them to carry a small countries weight in ammo?. I suggested that they take bags and boxes of ammo / food into the Mat trans with them just in case where they arrived was empty, again he knocked this back as a lazy writers crutch and too easy to fall back on.

    A few years later he did admit that it was the powers that be at GE that put constraints on him, not just with back packs -although JB and Mildred now carry "bottomless, when it suits" bags with stuff in, but with changing weapons, allowing them to set up a base of operations insttead of jumping at random and several other things.

    I agree on the clothes point, but I guess a lot of the DL demographic that read the books would sooner read about heads popping or Ryan & Krysty having sex than the group finding new pants!!!

    Jim


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    3/12/2013 12:53 PM

    Jeez, Jim! They change their freakin' clothes frequently. If the writers don't make clothing changes for a few books,, I add the info! Doc found a new set of clothes in an old hotel; Krysty had a jumpsuit for a couple of boks, then went to black jeans and a T-shirt; Ryan and J.B. changed clothes here and there. Mildred went from fatigues to jeans and a T-shirt, back to fatigues a time or two.They have to keep the basics, as I'm not allowed to dick around with the blue boots, bearskin coat--that magically appears and disappears from book to book, fedora, scarf that also ppears and disappears from book to book, Jak's camou jacket and the like. And nowsadays they have backpacks, at least from time to time. They have to tote that endless supply of ammo somehow. They have to leave the backpacks if they're on the run, but they eventually find and sock others.

     

    Edited to provide more info.

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    3/12/2013 5:00 PM
    Speak of the devil and she shall appear -LOL!!
    Cathy,
    I was talking about the LJ books in my above post. Of course the characters change odds and sods from book to book now, especially when you have a writer who has read nothing but the books he has written and the "bible". Yes the characters have items that never change or wear out but back in the old.days LJ wanted.to make changes a plenty but was not allowed.to.
    My.knowledge of the DL background only runs to the books Lawrence wrote post this I know only what other readers here know.

    Jim

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    3/12/2013 6:15 PM

    Definitely pesky.

    I'd like to see Krysty's Western boots bite the dust, as they surely hamper her ability to sprint. J.B.'s fedora needs to be replaced, as it's well past its prime, but there is a book coming up that tells of how he got the hat, so the sentimental value must keep it around for a while. Maybe i'll ask the powers that be if he can ditch the hat and get a bowler! Hahahaha!

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    3/13/2013 3:15 AM
    No get him a top hat and then Doc can be jealous of it after loosing his all that time ago.

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    applesauce
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    3/13/2013 6:39 AM
    I am not talking wanting to see them doing a fashion parade like they go on about the food. I mean wash the clothes out while swimming or find new stuff every 10 books so my nose doesnt wrinkle up when they have sex LOL I am addicted to these books and can not put them down. I am throwing in the odd Blade and Stephen King but my main stay are deathland. I agree a base camp makes far more sense. As for backpacks soliders carry them. They could leave them at the jump site as well. It is like eating before a jump when they all puke. You would think they would work out it was better to take the food and eat after the jump. I think I like people to appear to have 2 brain cells LOL
    I am sooooo glad to have found others who enjoy my guilty pleasure.

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    3/13/2013 7:37 AM
    It is like eating before a jump when they all puke. You would think they would work out it was better to take the food and eat after the jump.


    Just like always it takes a Woman to point out the obvious, its the story of my life!!! I've read all the (early) DL books several times and never thought of this simple thing once.

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    3/14/2013 12:13 AM
    applescaue: One rule of Deathlands (and they mention this a few times): Eat when you can, because you never know when you'll get another meal. Oftentimes, they can't stock up on food, other than random supplies they find or hunt down on their own.

    Cathy: What's wrong with the fedora? Sure, it's filthy, sweat-stained, and hasn't been washed since the long winters, but it keeps the sun off his face.

    I agree with you about the boots, though - it's gotta be hard to run in those things. I mean, look at what happened to Lori.

    Jim: Doc didn't lose his - he threw it away and bid it good riddance.
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    3/14/2013 7:26 AM
    What's wrong with the fedora? Sure, it's filthy, sweat-stained, and hasn't been washed since the long winters, but it keeps the sun off his face.


    That sounds like my trusty baseball cap I wear when out walking the hills, its not been washed in years, is sun bleached and the peak is broken but I still wear it with pride.


    Jim: Doc didn't lose his - he threw it away and bid it good riddance.


    ...and i never told you why either did I . He could still be jealous of JB's if he got one -especially when he was off "down memory lane"!!

    Jim
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    3/14/2013 8:39 AM

    Well, in addition to being all those things, the fedora has a few bullet holes. If the fedora ever was replaced, it would be replaced by another fedora. My father wore one for years. I love them.

     

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    3/14/2013 10:05 AM
    The weighted white scarf has returned in the latest one.
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    3/14/2013 11:02 AM
    Yeah, the latest book finally DID mention Ryan's long-lost scarf, but only once, and and over halfway through the book. Also, his panga was never mentioned until very late in the book. Seemed very odd, as he could have used both in several dire straits, but never did.
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    3/15/2013 10:21 AM

    Another thing that bugs the hell out of me is when some authors write that Ryan and the companions get caught flatfooted like greenhorns.

     

    Again, I am not picking on Rik Hoskin and his latest book, in which this happened - yest again in this series! - in which the companions are in enemy territory, are supposedly on full alert, but then a large group 'sneaks up' on them out of the blue, as if this is the companion's 1st outing.

     

    Even the illustrious Laurence James did this, and it drove me nuts then. Still doing at book 100+ is damn near maddening. It shouldn't have happened at Book #1. C'mon, authors! Are u kidding me?

     

    With all due major respect and kudos to all authors, please, please, please don't write in another 'caught flatfooted' scene again! At this juncture, every single member of the companions should have the professional experience of a grade A special forces soldier. Hell, with all the action they've gone through, they all should fight, fuck, hunt, gather, and do every specialized thing that each possess. Ryan should be able to track and recce just as good or better than Jak, for instance.

    applesauce
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    3/15/2013 11:47 PM

    What is the actual time span between the first book and the latest one. I am curious only being up to book 30. There had to be more than a year for the baby to be born, but beyond that i can not work it out as Dean doesnt seem to have aged.


    I do follow the eat when you can, but I am talking when they know they are about to jump and sit down to eat rather than taking it with them. I think to survive you should be practical and getting actual use out of the food makes sense rather than puking it up. How puke filled is that room now LOL I do not see good house keeping top of the list,

    It is good to know they use backpacks in latter books,


    applesauce

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    3/16/2013 7:13 PM
    Applesauce: There's a timeline on the wiki: http://www.jamesaxler.com/Wiki/tabi...fault.aspx To answer your question: the series starts in Jan 2096; book 100 takes place sometime in 2102. Unfortunately, that's the most specific I can get - a few books after LJ retired, the series became more episodic and less continuous, so it was difficult, if not impossible, to keep track of dates anymore.

    I don't recall seeing an instance where the companions sit down to eat right before they *know* they're going to jump. All the chambers are different, but I've had the same thought at some points - going back to a chamber where you've already hurled has got to be pretty gross.

    Something that's really been bugging me lately (I might have mentioned it before): Ryan's scar. Did this get retconned when I wasn't looking, or are the new authors not bothering to check the bible? The scar is on the *right* side, NOT the left, and it doesn't go through his eye. Harvey stabbed him in the left eye first, then tried to get him in the right, but he moved and the knife cut down his face, leaving that scar.
    applesauce
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    3/18/2013 1:17 AM
    Thanks I tried to keep my eyes half closed so I did not get to many spoilers, but I got an idea there is a very clever sticky coming up

    applesauce
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    1/20/2015 5:14 PM

    There are so many things on the "bugs me" list at this point that I'll need to make a proper summary later.  So many things mentioned in this thread are right in there  

    I too have read all the books in recent years.  Book 1 to book 90 as of today.  I've read them over the last 3-4 years or so.  So when you have that kind of perspective it can be a real chore to stomach the kind of lack of continuity and "normal" characterization we often see from the various authors.

     It should be a requirement that if you are going to author a book in a series like this that you have read "most" of the series.  Not necessarily every single book, but at least be interested in the series enough that you have read a good portion of it.

    Some of these authors come in and you can tell they "might" have read part of a book.  The take on characterizations is so bad completely kills the stories.  Book 88 by Rik Hoskin was soo atrocious in terms of character behavior, interaction, and abilities, that I was BARELY able to finish it.  The story and idea behind it was actually good.  But its execution with the characters was absolutely terrible.

     A major "bug me" point as well is the handful of books that weave a good to great story all way through but then in the last 20-30 pages the author (or editor ?) basically strips the story to a barebones summary, that jumps around with little continuity, and an almost insulting series of events that "wrap up" the story.  The ending of Time Castaways almost pissed me off because of this sloppiness.

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    1/20/2015 5:27 PM
    > It should be a requirement that if you are going to author a book in a series like this that you have read "most" of the series.

    Well, first off I guess that's pretty much a moot point anymore given that GE is folding and all but the very last book in the series has been completed (the last one is being written right now, and will be complete very soon).

    But even so, in a series with more than 100 books, most of which are long out of print, that is a rediculous thing to expect from a write-for-hire author. You yourself say it took you upwards of four years to read the first 90 books. Do you really think that any author, particularly for the meager wages on offer, is going to spend a couple of years just to have the privilege of writing piece of pulp fiction with a shelf life of roughly sixty days? Ain't gonna happen.

    I think it is reasonable to expect an author to approach the material with respect, and certainly reasonable to expect them to have read at least a couple of representative books. It is up to the editors to ensure that the style and characterizations are in bounds. That's about it.

    Granted, I think the series would have been better with a few dedicated authors. In my fantasy world, the series for the last few years would have been written exclusively by Alan Philipson and Chuck Rogers trading off each book. But at six books per year, that was never going to happen.
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    1/20/2015 11:47 PM

    I do see where you are coming from in regards to the authors not reading enough of the books.  So saying they read "most" of the books is overly ambitious. I guess the statement just portrays my disbelief that a LOT of the books written have such a poor grasp of what would seem fundamental character traits, behaviors, abilities, and often setting / background qualities. 

     But my point is they should have read a significant number of the books.  At least 10 ?  A good enough number to have a solid grasp of what they are working with.  At least 2 of the books I have read were so far out of touch with characters and setting that it was exceedingly difficult to finish them. 

     I learned to accept the change to an episodic nature, and therefore a lack of continuity and overall story progression.  But the lack of fundamentals makes it difficult in some books.

    I think it is reasonable to expect an author to approach the material with respect, and certainly reasonable to expect them to have read at least a couple of representative books. It is up to the editors to ensure that the style and characterizations are in bounds. That's about it.

    Some of the books it seems like this didn't happen, except on the most cursory level.

     I realize now that in that publishing situation, things were not setup to accommodate consistency and continuity.  But knowing that still doesn't make some of those books any easier to read

     That's why my comments went into the the "things that bug me" thread, lol.

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    1/21/2015 12:02 PM

    Oh also:

    Thanks for the reply   I'm really happy to have found this site and forums.  It has helped me immensely in understanding things that didn't make sense.  Plus its essentially the only avenue available (that I've found) that allows me even a small chance to discuss / learn about / see insights into what I've read.  Essentially share the experience.

     My only regret is that I didn't find and read the books earlier so I could have engaged in many of the discussions that have come and gone over the years here.

     This is absolutely no knock at all to the site or yourself, but it seems like I missed the "hay day" of Deathlands interest and participation.  My timing to experience the Deathlands is out of synch for participating with the community.  Stuff I'm just experiencing I'm guessing most have long moved on from and / or long forgotten about

    I'm finding myself posting in really old threads because of it.  So if reviving old threads is frowned upon here (as it can be on some websites), let me know and I'll create new threads for topics.

    So again, thanks !

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    1/21/2015 12:22 PM
    > if reviving old threads is frowned upon here (as it can be on some websites), let me know and I'll create new threads for topics.

    Nah, you're fine.

    > But my point is they should have read a significant number of the books. At least 10 ? A good enough number to have a solid grasp of what they are working with.

    Do you really think reading more of the books would have improved things for the bad entries? A lazy author is going to be lazy (and there have definitely been some poor, lazy entries in the series of the years). On the other hand, some of the very best authors in the series (like Alan Philipson and Chuck Rogers) read very few books before diving in. Even so, their skill and commitment to the craft of writing adventure stories shines through.

    It is also worth noting that the authors are at the mercy of the editors, who can and do go into the manuscripts and make all kinds of changes (which is, after all, their job). I am personally aware of several cases where the authors felt like the editor made material changes/deletions/additions that were problematic. A change of weapon type, the removal or repositioning of a scene that has the knock-on effect of placing a person or item in two places at once, etc. That kind of stuff happens, and realistically we aren't talking about High Art here. Things happen on a deadline and on a budget (and clearly even so it wasn't enough to make the books profitable enough to keep going).

    Things always get ugly when art collides with commerce. Some of the books are just irredeemably bad (I'm looking at you, Skydark Spawn). But there have been a surprising number of gems over the thirty year run of the series, and a more surprising number of gems in just the past few years. I would certainly count the last three books (Desolation Angels, Blood Red Tide, Polestar Omega) as classics. If nothing else, the series is going out on a high note.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Shaun
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    1/21/2015 2:36 PM

    Where to start on things that bug me! So many things, so little time. If I hear one more time about Doc going in and out of insanity I think that I will join him being bonkers. For a country that is so dangerous why would anyone keep on letting him stay with the group when he alone accounts for so many times of opening his mouth and putting everyone at risk. Then we have him talking like he is still in the 1800 when in reality he would eventually start to talk like the others (his speeches and rambling are IRRATATING TO NO END). Then we have Wyrthe who keeps on crying about her father that was hung by the towns people and how many times has her mouth opened to the point that Ryan has to keep telling her SHUT THE HELL UP, YOUR GOING TO GET US KILLED. Then we have Ryans spastic/moron son, who thinks that everyday is walking in the park event (his learning curve is nonexistent). Remember on book where they had all their blasters just laying around and when they needed them they had to dig through piles of clothes and garbage to find them.

    Enough for now, I am sure that I will get all kinds of grief over this but fear this I will be back to tear apart something that started so good but fell apart even faster then anyone ever imagined.

     

    Shaun
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    1/21/2015 2:36 PM

    Where to start on things that bug me! So many things, so little time. If I hear one more time about Doc going in and out of insanity I think that I will join him being bonkers. For a country that is so dangerous why would anyone keep on letting him stay with the group when he alone accounts for so many times of opening his mouth and putting everyone at risk. Then we have him talking like he is still in the 1800 when in reality he would eventually start to talk like the others (his speeches and rambling are IRRATATING TO NO END). Then we have Wyrthe who keeps on crying about her father that was hung by the towns people and how many times has her mouth opened to the point that Ryan has to keep telling her SHUT THE HELL UP, YOUR GOING TO GET US KILLED. Then we have Ryans spastic/moron son, who thinks that everyday is walking in the park event (his learning curve is nonexistent). Remember on book where they had all their blasters just laying around and when they needed them they had to dig through piles of clothes and garbage to find them.

    Enough for now, I am sure that I will get all kinds of grief over this but fear this I will be back to tear apart something that started so good but fell apart even faster then anyone ever imagined.

     

    silentalbino
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    1/21/2015 3:02 PM
    Doc doesn't do it so much in the newer books.
    WarZ
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    1/21/2015 5:24 PM

    Do you really think reading more of the books would have improved things for the bad entries? A lazy author is going to be lazy (and there have definitely been some poor, lazy entries in the series of the years).

     I feel that yes, if an author had read 10 of the books (ideally the early books where greater consistency existed) before diving into their own additions that for the most part, characterizations would be more on target and therefore the story would work way better.  They would understand the characters, more common interactions, behaviors, and abilities better.

    For me being invested in a long running series, its the characters who really carry it.  When someone writes the characters way out of the norm, I have great difficulty getting into the story.  I can handle some details being wrong occasionally, maybe past events arent quite right here and there, even some of the established facts or details about the world and muties (especially stickies) are terribly off.  But when the characters are way off, I'm just lost, and start to read in a detached, hardly caring manner.

     I am perhaps wrong, but thats my feeling on it.  I understand from my readings here that you have had a lot more interaction with various authors and authorities and understand all the workings far better.  So you are probably more on point that I am.

    One thing I've noted too, is that sometimes an author comes in and writes what for me was a real stinker / poor read.  But then the same author has a later book that was almost spot on, and the story and characters were great.  That might have indicated a growing familiarity with the material ?

    Things always get ugly when art collides with commerce. Some of the books are just irredeemably bad (I'm looking at you, Skydark Spawn). But there have been a surprising number of gems over the thirty year run of the series, and a more surprising number of gems in just the past few years. I would certainly count the last three books (Desolation Angels, Blood Red Tide, Polestar Omega) as classics. If nothing else, the series is going out on a high note.

    Well its encouraging to know that there are a lot of great reads upcoming for me   The last few books I've read through have been a mixed bag.  I just finished Time Castaways, and though I really enjoyed most of the book, it seemed like an editor (?) got involved at the very end and just hacked it up.  I was cruising along enjoying the story, then it just went of the rails it seemed.  Actually there was an unusual amount of jumping about in that story that I was taking in stride at certain points, but the ending is where it got truly messy.

     

    Doc doesn't do it so much in the newer books.

    Yea Doc has had no significant lapses in the last few books I've read.  Too bad no one has been able to get in and flesh out his story a bit more.  At one point in the early books there was a hint that Doc knew more about Ryan and the companions than he remembered or realized.  As if he not only had been trawled into Deathlands, but perhaps he had been trawled even farther into the future, lived and learned information of some sort, then time traveled back to the time Ryan found him.  Which might have been part of the explanation for the extreme ravages his body has undergone.  As I think about that there have a lot of really cool story lines and threads that have fallen by the wayside over the books.

    Shaun
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    1/22/2015 2:14 PM

    I am so glad to hear that! On the other hand tho I flinch at the idea doesn't do it so much. What do you mean by that, he only whacks out once a book compared to what seems like once a chapter or that hopefully he only whacks out every few books. What about the cry baby Mildred who was one years old when her dad was supposedly hung. Almost wish that they would come across a library where she finds out that dear old dad was a thug and hung for committing a crime that goes against her so called righteousness. I am sorry to say that a lot of times I REALLLLLLLLLLLY wish one of them would bite  the dust (especially Dean or Doc or Mildred) as a lesson on how nut to be a f---up.

     

    Ron Miles
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    1/22/2015 2:19 PM
    > What about the cry baby Mildred who was one years old when her dad was supposedly hung. Almost wish that they would come across a library where she finds out that dear old dad was a thug and hung for committing a crime that goes against her so called righteousness.

    Really? The week of Martin Luther King's birthday, and you're going to post that kind of racist tripe? You might want to rethink that.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Ron Miles
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    1/22/2015 3:07 PM
    Shaun: regarding the two posts of yours I just deleted - I would never presume to tell you what to think. You are also welcome to say anything you like, in any public space. This, however, is not a public space. It is my website. And on my website, I most emphatically *do* moderate what gets written here. If you wish to continue posting on this website, I suggest you take a deep breath and walk away for a bit.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Randarchist
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    1/22/2015 3:21 PM
    The best thing about bigots is that they are biodegradable.
    silentalbino
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    1/22/2015 3:27 PM
    First off let me start by saying, hermano's please chill out. Have a Kit Kat.

    When I first started reading the series I got a bit p@@sed off with how Milly is so goddamn perfect(after a few books) but I wouldn't say she harps her Father getting lynched. I honestly can't really recall her talking about bar maybe one or two times. If any of your family was murdered I'm sure you would be distressed about it mate.

    As for Doc, yeah it can be annoying when he get's frazzled but when he shines he shine's. Read the three book's by Chuck Roger's and I give you my guarantee that he will be one of your favourite character's by the end.

    Dave.
    Ron Miles
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    1/23/2015 5:57 PM
    Things that bug me:
    1. People who don't understand what freedom of speech actually means (hint: it doesn't mean you get to say anything you want, anywhere you want, any time you want).
    2. People who don't understand the difference between a public space and a private space (hint: just because something is publicly accessible doesn't make it a public space)
    3. People who write giant walls of ALL CAPS RAGE TEXT (hint: I don't even bother to read them, they just get deleted on general principal)

    In other news, my dog died yesterday. So yeah, it's not really the perfect time for someone to test my patience.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    lobo357
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    1/23/2015 7:32 PM
    Really sorry about your dog. Know how you feel.
    Randarchist
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    1/23/2015 11:06 PM
    Aw, man. Sorry to hear that, Ron.
    Rusty
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    7/5/2015 11:13 PM
    This thread alone is an awesome read in my opinion guys. I think that for just a bit there Doc's insanity thing might have gotten too excessive, but really that is one of the things that makes his character. Without it he wouldn't be Doc. I love the one where they really take him over the edge and he becomes that Scottish settler guy (I can't remember his name).
    Mildred sometimes goes on about her father, but again that is a major part of her character and gives you an idea of where she's coming from.
    The main thing I don't like is the jump-dreams used to drone on and on ad nauseam. Those were perhaps the only times I skipped forward in the book. I haven't actually 'read' a DL book but as my previous job kept me on the road a lot I got into the habit of listening to them in audiobook from. Let me just say the Graphic Audio has done an outstanding job with the multiple voice actors, music scores, and sound effects.


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