Ron MilesWebsite Owner  Commander In Chief Posts:864  
| 1/1/2011 3:50 PM |
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This is the official thread for comments on Deathlands #100 - Prodigal's Return
The bibliography page is located HERE
You can submit your own review HERE
Be warned, this thread may contain spoilers for the book. "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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| 3/1/2011 5:33 PM |
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I wondered how long it would take for Dean to return. The 100th novel in the series seems appropriate I guess. The way things are going with this series and the "Outlander" series I'm going to have to get a bigger bookcase!
I know a lot of the books have a base plot of arriving in a redoubt, going out and one or more of the characters experience capture, near death etc. but there is enough subtle differences to make each installment different and that's why I keep buying them.
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Canadian Nomad New Member Posts:8 
| 6/1/2011 11:58 AM |
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Anybody know if this book is going to be longer since it's the 100th - i.e. double size???
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor  Basic Member Posts:150 
| 7/15/2011 4:51 PM |
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Anybody have an opinion on the cover art of #100? It's not what I expected and in no way reflects what I suggested.
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 7/16/2011 2:57 PM |
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My copy just arrived in today's mail. (Standard sized, 315 pages). I need to finish up Alas, Babylon and then I will dive in.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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The PhantomBasic Member Posts:219 
| 7/16/2011 4:45 PM |
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Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 15 Jul 2011 04:51 PM
Anybody have an opinion on the cover art of #100? It's not what I expected and in no way reflects what I suggested.
I looks like they used the same guy for both Ryan and Dean. Just remove the eyepatch and there you go.  |
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APPublished Author  Veteran Member Posts:346 
| 7/16/2011 7:14 PM |
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Posted By The Phantom on 16 Jul 2011 04:45 PM
Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 15 Jul 2011 04:51 PM
Anybody have an opinion on the cover art of #100? It's not what I expected and in no way reflects what I suggested.
I looks like they used the same guy for both Ryan and Dean. Just remove the eyepatch and there you go.
The wind is gusting so strongly that it's blowing Mini-Me's duster straight out behind him, but oddly enough the strap on Ryan's rifle is hanging straight down. Perchance the young prodigal in the act of kneeling just passed a great "fartie" (rad-mutated DL bowel vapor)? Or he has passed so many great farties during his long absence that the tail of his coat has stiffened into a permanent horizontal position? Ryan appears about to let one rip, too, but in middle-east celebration, gunshot in the air style—note the finger curled around the trigger. The customary eye patch looks more like way-too-hip-for-the-hellscape sunglasses; for some reason RC reminds me of a young Gary Busey in a Wal-Mart Halloween wig. |
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 7/17/2011 6:22 AM |
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I'm pretty sure Ryan is really Lou Reed  "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 7/17/2011 10:06 AM |
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Posted By Ron Miles on 17 Jul 2011 06:22 AM
I'm pretty sure Ryan is really Lou Reed
Wow, that explains SO much.  |
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silentalbino Advanced Member Posts:742
| 8/25/2011 4:52 AM |
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Yeah guys the cover art is a bit shoddy for a series that has always been very artistic.
Hopefully we will now see a younger version of Mr R Cawdor running around with the gang again, being a little bit more helpfull than the one who just got kidnapped every five minutes.
Will Dean survive prodigals return? Most likely. But will he turn up in Lost gates? Has anyone told the other authors off this radical thinking? something actually changing in the series?
And now Dean has returned to the fold, can we expect Abe and the Trader to get off the next "stickie"wag(think greyhound) from two-son ville?
Only time will tell. |
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 8/26/2011 7:49 AM |
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They DO look identical, right down to the ripped right knee in the jeans. I don't really have an opinion on it overall, beyond that it's really focused - normally the art has one or more of the companions in the foreground, facing off against a mutie or bad guy and a hellscape background. As for Abe/Trader: They're dead. |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/26/2011 12:09 PM |
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Abe and Trader dead? Hmm. Their backs may be against the proverbial wall, but no one's seen the dead and bleeding bodies.
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197 
| 8/27/2011 3:05 PM |
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Since it seems Gold Eagle now likes to take old books, change a few words, and release them as NEW books, you could very well be seeing Abe and Trader again sooner than you think!
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 8/28/2011 11:03 AM |
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Please, feel free to speak your mind. I'm dying for some information on this issue.
Seriously, if GE would do this with the Stony Man series, why not Deathlands?
This should be a concern to all regular GE consumers I would think.
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 8/28/2011 12:31 PM |
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Not sure what Cathy said, I didn't see it before she deleted her own post. Regarding the recycled novel controversy, I don't have any insider knowledge on that at all, but I really don't think it was intentional on the part of GE. I think it is much more likely that the author submitted the copied book (either knowingly, or by taking an existing manuscript that he had forgotten he had already submitted), and the line editor didn't notice.
Do you have any more reliable information?
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/28/2011 12:45 PM |
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Mike, that would not happen in a Deathlands novel. I have edited every manuscript since Crater Lake. I might miss gun stuff, but I can spot a recycled plot. I have every synopsis, and I can access Harlequin's electronic database to check stuff--plus I am a keen fan of the series. In another series I edit, I have found chapters from a different series mixed in, with different characters, but that was a blatant problem with files and not an attempt to hoodwink GE or the reader.
I have no idea what happened with Nathan's book, as I have been out of the GE loop since Feroze retired. I got the standard response. I suspect the whole mess will be handed over to the Legal Department to sort out. I deleted my last post, as I did not want to get into an arguement with you, Mike. You don't seem to be a big fan of GE.
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 8/28/2011 3:28 PM |
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Really?
As the owner of literally hundreds and hundreds of GE books from SOBs to Rogue Angel,...ncluding dozens of complete series like Earth Blood, Time Raiders, SLAM, Track, Heroes Of War, etc ad nauseum...I can say I AM a fan and reader of Gold Eagle books.
I've been a subscriber to their Reader Service since I first received a comp proof copy of Executioner #39 in the mail months before it even hit the stands thanks to being on a list of fans who had corresponded with Don Pendleton.
I am NOT a fan of being ripped off and shoddy business practices!
I would love to have more "reliable information" but GE has seen fit to basically ignore our inquests, I don't see any coming.
I'm glad Deathlands is in such good hands. Too bad the Stony Man team can't say likewise.
As a consumer I can't afford to drop a dime on recycled crap, let alone 44 bucks a shipment.
If it was a simple mistake on anyone's part, no biggie. I get it.
But unfortunately this reeks of thinking your customers are idiots who will never notice BS when you feed it to 'em.
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 8/28/2011 4:01 PM |
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Posted By mikeclr on 28 Aug 2011 03:28 PM
I would love to have more "reliable information" but GE has seen fit to basically ignore our inquests, I don't see any coming.
If this is something that has been turned over to legal, it could very well be a case where GE has been advised by their lawyers to not talk about it publicly. (Again, that is pure conjecture on my part, I have no inside information regarding this incident). If there is a legal case pending (in *either* direction), it could severely impact potential damage recovery to talk about it in a public forum. "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 8/28/2011 8:06 PM |
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Well, you're the editor, Wordsmith, so you know more than I do.  I'm basing my info on the following: It's been 16 years since Shadowfall (their last appearance), and Straub strongly implied in Circle Thrice that they're dead. Flimsy evidence, I know, but since we haven't heard anything about them since (and the companions have been all over the country, so unless those two were hiding, some rumors would've popped up), it's a pretty safe bet they're dead. Presonally, I'd rather they were - I don't want to see another Sharona Carson, TYVM. Re: The legal controversy: Ron's most likely right; it's standard procedure to clamp a lid on such things to avoid liability issues and such - you always hear people in news stories speaking about things anonymously because they're not supposed to be talking about ongoing investigations or whatever. |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/29/2011 3:36 AM |
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Kerrick, are you old enough to remember Bobby Ewing? Just kidding. We wouldn't go there. But Mack Bolan, the stalwart of other GE series, was killed of by his creator in #38, only to rise again and live on published by GE. So, you can never say never, cliché that that is.
Dean is out of Sharona's clutches again in #100. Don't know if we'll see her again. I hope not.
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silentalbinoAdvanced Member Posts:742
| 8/29/2011 5:01 PM |
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Has anyone read it yet? Getting so BORED waiting for the postie(mailman)!
And Ron if you have are you allowed to give us any snippet's or are you sworn to secrecy?
P.s can you buy them direct fron GE and if so do they come any earlier?
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 8/29/2011 6:21 PM |
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I read it several weeks ago, and really liked it quite a bit. And yes, if you get them from the GE Reader's Service you get the books usually a month or two before they hit the bookstores.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 8/29/2011 7:50 PM |
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Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 29 Aug 2011 03:36 AM
Kerrick, are you old enough to remember Bobby Ewing? Just kidding. We wouldn't go there. But Mack Bolan, the stalwart of other GE series, was killed of by his creator in #38, only to rise again and live on published by GE. So, you can never say never, cliché that that is.
OMFG! Wow. If you are going to name drop Mack Bolan you should get your facts straight. NO WAY, NO HOW did Don Pendleton "kill" Mack Bolan in Executioner #38! That is just so flat out wrong as to be ridiculous. The whole "Second Mile" scenario in books #33 to #38 was a lead in to Mack faking his death at the end of the story to lead into his working with Hal Brognola and the government sponsored Stony Man. At no time in the story did Don (or Mike Newton) either "kill" Mack or lead his readers to think that Bolan might be dead. The reader was in on the plan from the beginning. You can't honestly be saying that Gold Eagle somehow saved Mack Bolan from oblivion can you? It was always Don's plan to continue the series in a new direction. Just out of curiosity did you actually read Satan's Sabbath? N' no I am not trying to start anything, I am correcting an erroneous statement. Sheesh! "Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/30/2011 3:27 AM |
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No, I'm not saying that GE saved Mack from oblivion. Yes, I did read Satan's Sabbath. I banged off the post and should not have said that Don "killed" him off. I knew the plan. The statement was in the context that someone can appear to be dead, but not really be dead. Jeez, my apologies for misspeaking. Yes, Don licensed the Bolan character to Harlequin so that the brand could continue to be published. As far as I know, Don planned to stop writing Bolan after a certain number of books. If Harlequin hadn't licensed the brand, then someone else probably would have.
And that, kids, is why I seldom post. Too easy to be misinterpretd when you choose the wrong turn of phrase. Not a poke at you, Mike, just a general comment. And thanks for pointing that out. I always try to get things right. Sometimes, I fall a little short when trying to make a point.
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 8/30/2011 6:54 AM |
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Don Pendleton fans are a loyal breed. We stand by truth.
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/30/2011 6:56 AM |
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Me too--both a fan and standing by the truth. I've read the first 38, and either edited, proofread or copyedited 39-399. I just misused a phrase. I'll be more circumspect in future for sure.
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 8/30/2011 8:10 AM |
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We really need multiquote... **Kerrick, are you old enough to remember Bobby Ewing? Just kidding. We wouldn't go there.** I am, but I never watched Dallas. Thankfully, Wikipedia filled me in on the details. **But Mack Bolan, the stalwart of other GE series, was killed of by his creator in #38, only to rise again and live on published by GE. So, you can never say never, cliché that that is.** I don't mind the "returning from the dead" thing if it's done well... but it's hardly ever done well. Sure, the first time he wandered off into the wilderness, presumably to die; LJ brought him back, and it was believable. The next time, the companions rowed away with Trader/Abe surrounded by Straub's men. They could have survived... but bringing them back after this long smacks of "we need a new plot, so let's dig Trader up". He and Ryan were constantly fighting the last time, and both men agreed it was better if they split up. Let dead Traders lie, I say. **Dean is out of Sharona's clutches again in #100. Don't know if we'll see her again. I hope not.** Amen to that. **Me too--both a fan and standing by the truth. I've read the first 38, and either edited, proofread or copyedited 39-399. I just misused a phrase. I'll be more circumspect in future for sure.** And you an editor. For shame!  |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/30/2011 8:20 AM |
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I should know better than to bang off a post without rereading it, but I'm as the office and shouldn't be on the Net!
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269 
| 8/30/2011 10:01 AM |
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Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 30 Aug 2011 03:27 AM
As far as I know, Don planned to stop writing Bolan after a certain number of books.
After the ill-conceived lawsuit Harlequin filed against Don, they ended up having to pay him an considerable amount of money per year not to write anything, much less Bolan. According to an unimpeachable source, Don always intended to keep his writing hand in the Bolan saga, albeit infrequently. |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/30/2011 10:35 AM |
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Good Lord! Harlequin sued Don? Holy cow! THAT I didn't know. |
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/30/2011 11:52 AM |
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Posted By Jax2 on 30 Aug 2011 10:01 AM
Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 30 Aug 2011 03:27 AM
As far as I know, Don planned to stop writing Bolan after a certain number of books.
After the ill-conceived lawsuit Harlequin filed against Don, they ended up having to pay him an considerable amount of money per year not to write anything, much less Bolan.
According to an unimpeachable source, Don always intended to keep his writing hand in the Bolan saga, albeit infrequently.
Mark, When did this lawsuit take place? Didn't Don publish the Ashton Ford series with Warner Books in 1986, and the Joe Copp series with Donald Fine in 1988? AP |
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Sin-EaterNew Member Posts:42
| 8/30/2011 12:29 PM |
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Posted By AP on 30 Aug 2011 11:52 AM
Posted By Jax2 on 30 Aug 2011 10:01 AM
Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 30 Aug 2011 03:27 AM
As far as I know, Don planned to stop writing Bolan after a certain number of books.
After the ill-conceived lawsuit Harlequin filed against Don, they ended up having to pay him an considerable amount of money per year not to write anything, much less Bolan.
According to an unimpeachable source, Don always intended to keep his writing hand in the Bolan saga, albeit infrequently.
Mark,
When did this lawsuit take place? Didn't Don publish the Ashton Ford series with Warner Books in 1986, and the Joe Copp series with Donald Fine in 1988?
AP
http://mydropsofink.blogs...-don-pendletons.html
Here's mention of the lawsuit on Linda Pendleton's website.
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/30/2011 12:39 PM |
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So HQ had to pay a big licensing fee to Don AND money due to a lawsuit?
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269
| 8/30/2011 1:14 PM |
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They had to pay him 200 thousand dollars a year for NOT writing The Executioner series. A classic backfire. Alan--I believe the lawsuit happened in 1987. The trigger of the suit was due to the Ashton Ford series because Warner Books promoted the debut novel with a cover blurb claiming Don was the creator of the Executioner. Harlequin accused Don of violating a non-compete clause...even though Don had offered the Ford series to Gold Eagle first and they rejected it. Although Don was triumphant, the fallout was that Mark Howell, the first GE editor and by all accounts a stand-up guy, was fired because he made statements supporting Don. And...we know what happened after that...  |
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/30/2011 2:03 PM |
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Sin-Eater,
Looks like a different law suit--one versus Pinnacle (1973).
AP
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269
| 8/30/2011 2:45 PM |
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The Harlequin vs. Don suit was totally different than the one involving Pinnacle, although I don't doubt an attempt at a rights grab was part of the motivation.
Linda gave me some interesting details about it a few years back.
Speaking of Linda (who as everybody knows is a class act all the way down the line), she facilitated the licensing agreement between the estate of Dick Prather and Sequential Pulp, a graphic novel imprint of Dark Horse.
So guess who is contracted to adapt Shell Scott into series of graphic novels?
No, your first guess is wrong.
It's me.
I'll put up more details on my blog later this week.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/30/2011 4:19 PM |
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I think it was a different Mark Howell, too. You couldn't be referring to the same person who hired me to work for GE in 1982. |
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269
| 8/30/2011 4:56 PM |
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Heh.  Well, I never met the man. I'm only repeating what a couple of other people told me about him...Eva, for one. |
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/30/2011 5:16 PM |
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Eva was (is, I hope) a great person. I still regret that she and I lost touch after she got the Golden Parachute. I guess working for "the man" in the Toronto office was different that being a series author under contract. I remember being elated that he was gone, and so hopeful that at last things would change for the better. Alas, the job titles changed (everyone working under him was promoted) but nothing else. Everything you find troubling  about the company has existed from its inception. |
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The PhantomBasic Member Posts:219
| 8/30/2011 6:25 PM |
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Posted By mikeclr on 28 Aug 2011 03:28 PM
I've been a subscriber to their Reader Service since I first received a comp proof copy of Executioner #39 in the mail months before it even hit the stands thanks to being on a list of fans who had corresponded with Don Pendleton.
As a consumer I can't afford to drop a dime on recycled crap, let alone 44 bucks a shipment.
Very cool! Is the cover of that copy the same as the regular one? And 44 bucks a shipment? Are they giving you a subscriber discount at all, or maybe charging you shipping? It shouldn't be that much, even with the raised prices. |
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 8/31/2011 8:26 AM |
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If I remember correctly the copy I was sent was like a xeroxed copy with two pages per sheet. It had a xerox of the cover on the first page.
They actually sent me a copy of what would turn out to be the first SOBs too, but at the time I think it had a different title...maybe Eagle Squad? Eagle Force? Maybe AP would know...
The sad part...I held onto them for years but threw them out sometime after college for some reason. Doh!
I did hold onto the comp early proof copies of the first Able Team and Phoenix Force they sent me. They were regular paperback sized with plain red and white covers with just the title of the book printed, no illustrations.
They are packed away but when I ever take them out again I'll scan them and post the pics at mackbolan.com
Yes, 44 bucks is right for the complete package...two Executioners, one (or two) Super Bolan, one Stony Man, one DL, one OL, and one Rogue Angel. I think that is about a buck off cover price.
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/31/2011 9:01 AM |
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Mike,
Don't remember for sure whether SOBs was called something else initially, but I think you might be right. I came aboard after the first book was published. It hadn't sold very well (just 17K copies, I think). I got the numbers up to around 140K with the next two books. I would've liked to have had full control of the series, written all the books, actually felt I deserved that privilege after resurrecting it from the dead (ask me what I think of Mark Howell), but GE never wanted any of the early writers-for-hire to have that kind of power.
Funny you should mention those red and white pre-publication copies of AT and PF. I have a pair stashed away in plastic in my garage rafters somewhere. Thought they might be worth something someday. Silly me.
AP
P.S.: I once tried to set alight some of my old SOBs. FYI: they don't burn for shit.
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/31/2011 9:11 AM |
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I always enjoyed the Nile Barrabas character. Loved the artwork and wish I had an original--though the model was one scary-looking dude.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/31/2011 9:29 AM |
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W-r,
Back in the day I took 35mm color photos of some of the covers and had them enlarged, then framed them. They turned out fine. The one from Gulag War is 20 x 14 and is just Barrabas's head and shoulders (no SOBs logo or cover copy) in fur hooded snow parka.
AP
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269
| 8/31/2011 10:20 AM |
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Posted By AP on 30 Aug 2011 05:16 PM
Eva was (is, I hope) a great person. I still regret that she and I lost touch after she got the Golden Parachute.
I think it was more like the Golden Knife between the shoulderblades. Because she was the first editor I engaged with at Harlequin, I always consider her the "real" Gold Eagle editor. She was very interactive, had a lot of great suggestions, appreciated that writing these books on the schedule in which they were written was not the same as data entry and understood that the writers couldn't be treated like they were interchangeable day labor from a temp agency... At least not if you wanted a final product approaching anything like quality. Keep in mind that it was after she was forced out that DL became a breeding ground for water beetle people, rut farms, gasoline powered mat-trans gateway units and thinly disguised pedophiliac fantasies. |
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/31/2011 10:56 AM |
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Mark,
You're right. Eva's firing was worse than unfair. It was punishment for doing a excellent job, and not keeping quiet when higher-ups in the food chain poached her ideas and gave her no credit. But as I recall she also got a settlement from the backstabbers--that's what I meant by "Golden Parachute." I didn't mean to imply it made up for what had been done to her. Just a fact.
Eva was the closest thing to a real editor I ever had at GE. Not that she ever "edited" anything of mine, but when I talked to her on the phone, which I did quite a bit, I felt like she had my back--as much as she could given her own precarious position in the pecking order.
AP
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/31/2011 11:00 AM |
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Eva was also a published poet, very well-read and had a keen intellect. It was a pleasure to work with her.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/31/2011 11:08 AM |
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W-r,
If you have any current info on her (e-mail or snail mail addies), please e-mail it to me via the normal addy.
AP
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 8/31/2011 11:15 AM |
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We lost touch, unfortunately.
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269
| 8/31/2011 2:23 PM |
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I'll check my address books for her email address...we stayed in touch up until four or so years ago.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/31/2011 3:19 PM |
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Mark, Thanks so much for doing that. Awesome!  If you find it please send it to my gmail addy or PM me with it here. AP |
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 8/31/2011 4:07 PM |
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Posted By mikeclr on 31 Aug 2011 08:26 AM
They actually sent me a copy of what would turn out to be the first SOBs too, but at the time I think it had a different title...maybe Eagle Squad? Eagle Force? Maybe AP would know...
Oddly, there's nothing on Wikipedia about the series or its author, Jack Hild, despite it being an Executioner spinoff - I had to use Google to find any info, and that was sparse at best. My dad used to read those books when I was a kid, and I seem to recall something about Eagles too, but I can't remember the actual name. Course, it could be that we're both confusing it with Phoenix Force... |
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The PhantomBasic Member Posts:219
| 9/3/2011 12:38 PM |
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Posted By AP on 31 Aug 2011 09:01 AM
Mike,
Don't remember for sure whether SOBs was called something else initially, but I think you might be right. I came aboard after the first book was published. It hadn't sold very well (just 17K copies, I think). I got the numbers up to around 140K with the next two books. I would've liked to have had full control of the series, written all the books, actually felt I deserved that privilege after resurrecting it from the dead (ask me what I think of Mark Howell), but GE never wanted any of the early writers-for-hire to have that kind of power.
I bet GE would love to have those numbers today... Alan, did you have any communication with the other SOBs writer, Robin Hardy, as you were writing that series? |
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 9/3/2011 2:06 PM |
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The Phantom,
I had some contact with Robin Hardy in 1990, but only after he left the series and became executive editor of Cloverdale Press in New York. It was just a brief exchange of "hi, how are ya?" letters. He wrote that he always loved the "eat the rat" scene in Butchers of Eden. Sadly, Robin died in a freak mountain climbing accident--at least that's what I remember hearing from someone at GE.
AP
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damoniteNew Member Posts:8
| 9/14/2011 9:17 PM |
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Man. It would be nice to hear some reviews for this book!
Im really siked to hear if its any good or not.
Not trying to be pushy. Just want to know if i should buy
It or not.thanks ja forum.
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 9/15/2011 8:19 AM |
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When the book comes out, I'm sure plenty of folks will be talking about it. I have yet to see it at the local Barnes & Noble.
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Harry Whittleberry 2Basic Member Posts:116
| 9/16/2011 3:32 AM |
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i got mine a few days back and just started it today. there are sum mistakes with the guns like dean has a browning high power that it says is a 38 its not and then a bit later it says he loads his browning with 9mm which it is. it also seys that ryan has been followed by the monster thing for a full day but jb eats some fish from doc that they got from a barron the day before wen they were in a vill. too many silly mistakes in the first 40 pages. who rote it?
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silentalbinoAdvanced Member Posts:742
| 9/17/2011 2:00 AM |
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Posted By Harry Whittleberry 2 on 16 Sep 2011 03:32 AM
i got mine a few days back and just started it today. there are sum mistakes with the guns like dean has a browning high power that it says is a 38 its not and then a bit later it says he loads his browning with 9mm which it is. it also seys that ryan has been followed by the monster thing for a full day but jb eats some fish from doc that they got from a barron the day before wen they were in a vill. too many silly mistakes in the first 40 pages. who rote it?
Apart from the silly mistakes is it any good? Amazon just been in touch to tell me i wont get my copy till the 23rd now-NOT IMPRESSED!!!!!!
Same thing happened with the last two books
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 9/17/2011 7:26 AM |
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Yes, it's very good. Not the best ever, but still very good. And it turns Dean into a worthwhile and more mature character, instead of the annoying kid he used to be.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 9/17/2011 7:26 AM |
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Yes, it's very good. Not the best ever, but still very good. And it turns Dean into a worthwhile and more mature character, instead of the annoying kid he used to be.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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ShadowTekBasic Member Posts:163
| 9/19/2011 11:36 AM |
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Congratulations to Deathlands on there 100th book! May there be many more!!!!
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silentalbinoAdvanced Member Posts:742
| 9/20/2011 5:59 AM |
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Posted By Ron Miles on 17 Sep 2011 07:26 AM
Yes, it's very good. Not the best ever, but still very good. And it turns Dean into a worthwhile and more mature character, instead of the annoying kid he used to be.
Book finally turned up today! On chapter 4 already, seems good so far! Ill let you know the final verdict. |
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silentalbinoAdvanced Member Posts:742
| 9/21/2011 2:49 AM |
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Just finished it this morning, my my it was worth the wait!!!!!!
SPOILER ALERT £$$%%^^&&***
Well young master Dean has returned and gone but i think we may see him in the future. Im kind of glad he didnt automatically join back up with the gang, although i knew it was gonna happen i was kinda P***** when they killed off his love interest i thought she kinda showed potential.
I was quite excited when the Trans-mats all stopped working and Ryan et al where planning to become traders, i thought this would have been a nice little break from the aimlessly wandering.
The "Stony Angels" where quite a cool little bunch and made nice cannon fodder.
Was it a howler at the end that ate Natters???
Anyhoo i have really enjoyed the last three books and hope the next one can keep up the pace
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| 9/21/2011 11:15 PM |
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Posted By silentalbino on 21 Sep 2011 02:49 AM
Just finished it this morning, my my it was worth the wait!!!!!!
SPOILER ALERT £$$%%^^&&***
Well young master Dean has returned and gone but i think we may see him in the future. Im kind of glad he didnt automatically join back up with the gang, although i knew it was gonna happen i was kinda P***** when they killed off his love interest i thought she kinda showed potential.
I was quite excited when the Trans-mats all stopped working and Ryan et al where planning to become traders, i thought this would have been a nice little break from the aimlessly wandering.
The "Stony Angels" where quite a cool little bunch and made nice cannon fodder.
Was it a howler at the end that ate Natters???
Anyhoo i have really enjoyed the last three books and hope the next one can keep up the pace
Sadly, knowing GE.. They won't make mention of the Mat Trans (Trans mat?) stopped working until the author who wrote this book writers again. As for the next book.. well different author, so possibly be ready for another let down that is until Chuck Rodgers next book 'Hell Road Truckers'.. Which A) Is going to Kick some whitie produced ass B) Takes Place in Canada C) Is going to kick some major whitie produced ass.. Yes I know that A & C are technically the same, but I thought that they were so important that they needed to be repeated!  |
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Harry Whittleberry 2Basic Member Posts:116
| 9/22/2011 4:59 AM |
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SPOILER ALERTS
i have about 30 pages to go ni this and think it was ok to read. i read a lot of mistakes in it and realy thougt the part in the power station was very stupid. why would so many animals and mutes all come into the one place without attacking each other in the tunel on the way in. it was just to stupid.
also they did not have a lot of bullets for the guns but used them a lot without any worry about how many they had.
will doc keep his new gun, i think he had another onre like this in the book in the disney like place but lost it.
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silentalbinoAdvanced Member Posts:742
| 9/24/2011 12:23 PM |
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@ jodes- Whats a "whitie". is that slang for canucks?
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JnEricsonxNew Member Posts:1
| 9/26/2011 6:30 AM |
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That ending annoyed and depressed me. Maybe Dean didn't have to hook up with the companions, but he's seperated from his family, such as it is for 3 years, has to do some cruddy stuff, including wounding Ryan, and then his first real love gets killed, by his own father.....WTF wrote this, Joss Whedon?
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 10/1/2011 6:31 PM |
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I *finally* got my hands on a copy. Not sure why it was delayed; B&N had the new OL on the shelves two weeks ago. It'll be another week or so before I finish reading my current book and get into that one, though. Edit: Pollotta? Pollotta wrote this?? Agh. It only takes him five pages to screw something up, too - Dean's weapon is 9mm, not a .38. I think it's funny, BTW, that the teaser on the first page is from the first page of the book. Way to go, GE.  |
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 10/6/2011 10:51 PM |
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Finished it earlier today. Wow, Pollotta pulled out all the stops - he managed to cram in just about every trope from his previous books that I've seen so far: huge war wags (two of them), bioweapons (howlers), droids, flare guns, a Webley, weirdo muties (flapjacks - which seem to be as ubiquitous as stingwings - and feeders), and a climactic end battle between multiple factions. He even mentioned Delphi and robot tanks. I was half-expecting a kraken to make an appearance.
And what Pollotta novel would be complete without factual errors? To be fair, though, this one's far better than others I've read.
Regarding the M16: it's called a "charging handle", not an "arming bolt", and you can lock the bolt back, so there's no reason why Krysty would nearly lose a finger when it snapped forward.
Oh, and you can't mount an M-40 grenade launcher onto an AK-47.
Once again, the LeMat's shotgun barrel is not a 12-gauge. The reproduction Doc picked up is a 20-gauge.
He uses the companions' code (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie) correctly early on, then inexplicably gets it wrong later when Dean meets up with Jak.
The companions end up in Kentucky, then walk "several weeks" away to "the next redoubt". Hmm... there's one in Kentucky, one in Ohio, two in Indiana, and two in Tennessee, all of which are closer than wherever they went (and some of which even appeared in his other books). And that's just the ones I know of.
In the "rofl file": The companions are attacked by mastiffs three times normal size, with sabretooth fangs. No problem so far... but then Mildred cuts one open, examines the organs, and proclaims that it's not a mutie. Suuuure.
An aircraft carrier gets blown into the air high enough to fly about a hundred miles inland. Uh-huh. (Note that this one appeared in a previous book, too... I believe it was Gemini Rising, except that one was simply sitting on the ground, not buried in it.)
Honestly, I can't figure out why the Alton people joined up with the coldhearts. Ralhoun has a vision, then she goes totally crazy and has to go kill Ryan. WTF? Did I miss something? It doesn't make any sense, but maybe I'll see it when I do the summary.
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| 10/8/2011 2:11 AM |
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A whitie is just that.. a white guy.
"Whitie Produced" is from a comedy "skit" about a Native American (or Canadian) radio station, called Brocket 99. Some consider it racism, and others don't (it was made by white people).
Its kind of hard to go into here, but one of the skits has a guy trying to start his car from a used car lot and he basically says "this whitie produced car better f'n start.. I need to get to the rodeo".
It may sound confusing, but once you've listened to the tape you might have a better feel for it.
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)3az )3aziahBritish Bloke Veteran Member Posts:1060 
| 10/8/2011 7:33 AM |
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I have read and finished this book and find it like all other of NP's work a little lack lustre and filled with his own interpretation of the DEathlands and not established canon.
He makes way, way too much use of bio weapon animals and his own ad hock knowledge of the world, weapons and most importantly the main characters.
To me this book was nothing more than another pay cheque to him and something he churned out with scant regard to it being book 100 and as such a book that all long time readers have been waitting on.
I would give this book 2.5 / 10
=============================== Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.
Please check out my FLICKR photos
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 10/8/2011 12:48 PM |
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Posted By )3az )3aziah on 08 Oct 2011 07:33 AM
I have read and finished this book and find it like all other of NP's work a little lack lustre and filled with his own interpretation of the DEathlands and not established canon.
He makes way, way too much use of bio weapon animals and his own ad hock knowledge of the world, weapons and most importantly the main characters.
To me this book was nothing more than another pay cheque to him and something he churned out with scant regard to it being book 100 and as such a book that all long time readers have been waitting on.
I would give this book 2.5 / 10
I was thinking much the same thing. There are plot holes large enough to drive a truck through. I thought about it a bit and decided to write it all down. Feel free to discuss. Plot Hole #1The situation: The companions ride up to Alton ville and offer a trade - their vehicle for horses and maybe some supplies. Ralhoun, the baron/chief, is interested at first, then suddenly clams up when Ryan mentions using the wag as a war wag. She then gives them directions to a camping site which is obviously an ambush point. Sure enough, the companions are ambushed that night, but since they see it coming, the Alton men are killed instead. The problem: Why did Ralhoun suddenly turn on them? I can see her getting a little nervous about having a war wag, but she could easily rip it apart. It certainly doesn't justify sending a party out to kill them in their sleep. It even says that "Ryan knew why the deal had gone flat", but apparently he can't be bothered to explain it to the reader. What I think: It makes some sort of sense if you assume that Ralhoun has heard rumors of the Stone Angels raiding villes. Some people have surely survived and fled, carrying news of Dean acting as an advance scout (of course, if that were the case, the Angels wouldn't have been as successful as they were...). Ryan mentioning a war wag might have tweaked Ralhoun onto hearing the description of the scout, who looks just like a smaller version of (you guessed it) Ryan himself. This doesn't explain, however, how Ryan knew what was going on - they hadn't met the Angels at this point. And it also doesn't explain... Plot Hole #2The situation: Ralhoun and her men have been chasing the companions for several days now; apparently they think Ryan's a member of the Stone Angels (more on this later). One night, Ralhoun (who's a doomie's daughter) has a dream. In it, she's trapped in a stone room lined with flayed human skins: one is her sec chief, who charged into the Angels' base and got them all killed/captured, and one is Ryan's (this becomes important later). She herself is tied down and is being raped by Camarillo, the Angels' leader. After waking from the dream, she takes her sergeant out of sight of the camp and shoots him. In cold blood. Just because she thought it would avert the fate that she saw in her dream, even though she knows (it was explained to us) that her dreams are seldom accurate. A couple days later, she and her men raid the Angels' base, seeking to wipe out the Angels and the hated Ryan Cawdor (who, of course, isn't there). In the middle of the fight, two men from either side are broken out of their mortal combat by none other than Camarillo and Ralhoun, riding side-by-side. Ralhoun explains that they've "been tricked" and that Ryan's not an Angel. Camarillo suspects that Ryan and Dean are running a scam on them, setting the two groups against each other so the companions can clean up after the smoke clears. They then make a truce and set off after the companions. The problem: Oh, where do I start... Pollotta has painted himself into a corner - he took half the book to detail the companions being chased by a howler instead of setting up a coherent plot, so by this point (about 90% of the way through the book) it's a total mess. Instead of rewriting it, he just shoehorns everything in and either expects the reader to ignore the gaping flaws, or he simply doesn't care. Remember that dream Ralhoun had? The one that made her shoot her sergeant? Yeah, she apparently forgot all about that: she's joining forces with the guy who killed most of her men and raped her. I guess she figured killing the sergeant was good enough... And then we have the fact that the Angels are raiders. You know, the "rape and pillage" kind of raiders, who have done this to over a dozen other villes? Again, Ralhoun completely ignores this little detail, despite running a ville of her own, because... she's blinded with hatred, or something. I don't know. There's not even an internal monologue about her planning to turn around and kill them after the battle, to prevent them from coming after her ville (because they're, you know, raiders and all). And speaking of sec men... where did all these people come from? The way I figure it, the caravan would've been wiped out between the initial contact with the Angels, the battle in the power plant, and the final battle - there were only 11 wagons, and most of them were destroyed. Likewise, there seem to be hundreds of bandits and sec men each - Ralhoun apparently took every able-bodied man and woman she had, leaving her ville completely defenseless. How did Ralhoun find the Angels' base? She was supposedly following the companions, but they never went anywhere near that place. How exactly did Ralhoun find out that Ryan wasn't an Angel? Did she just walk up to Camarillo and say "Hey, I want Ryan Cawdor, and then we'll leave peacefully"? More to the point, why did she think he was one in the first place? If Ralhoun had heard rumors of the Angels, she would've instantly recognized Ryan and given him the old heave-ho immediately, instead of playing nice and then changing her mind. Though why she doesn't want them to go east is a total mystery; there's nothing there but that old aircraft carrier, and that's a hotspot (despite, you may note, the material in the reactor having broken down years ago). On the same note, why did Camarillo believe her? He's the leader of a band of raiders, which breeds a good degree of paranoia. If someone attacked my ville with no warning, I'd assume it was either another raider band or a ville out for revenge; I certainly wouldn't believe the other leader if she told me she was after a single person. The whole "they're out to play both sides against the middle" conspiracy theory isn't actually that bad... if it had been set up properly. The problem is, you're talking about a band of raiders and a ville (which is run by a non-paranoid baron). If I were Ralhoun, I'd start worrying that someone would take advantage of the ville's weakened defense (see above) and hurry back to Alton after I figured out that Ryan wasn't actually a bad guy (see below). Ralhoun has no reason to go after Ryan - the companions killed her men out of self-defense, AND they left the war wag behind like they promised they would. Sounds like a fair deal to me - once I had someone check the wag out thoroughly for boobie traps (and finding none), I'd say "oopsie" and let the whole thing go, because Ryan was obviously not the person I thought he was. If she were an extreme paranoid, she could justify it; I would say she's not (given that her people love her and she runs a tight ville), but her actions seem to speak otherwise. Maybe she's got multiple personalities? |
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GrantboNew Member Posts:46
| 10/13/2011 7:00 PM |
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This wasn't the worst book of the series; but pretty close.
The mistakes in equipment people carried were numerous. Sometimes the sequence of events just didn't make sense. Makes you scratch your head, 'why'd they do that?'.
Doc throwing his LeMat away for a modern Lemat that takes cartridges? Ahhh, not a chance. 1) His LeMat IS a modern version taken from a Kansas baron. 2) The modern version does not take cartridges. Just check Cabellas. 3) He's a believer in black powder.
It was so wrong on so many levels that I wonder why there is no editor to catch all the mistakes? |
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 10/13/2011 7:06 PM |
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Posted By Grantbo on 13 Oct 2011 07:00 PM
... I wonder why there is no editor to catch all the mistakes?
There is an editor, but only a line editor whose function it is to correct spelling and grammatical errors (as apposed to fact or continuity checking). "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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Jax2Published Author Veteran Member Posts:269
| 10/14/2011 4:57 AM |
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Posted By Ron Miles on 13 Oct 2011 07:06 PM
There is an editor, but only a line editor whose function it is to correct spelling and grammatical errors (as apposed to fact or continuity checking).
Um... riiiight. |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 10/14/2011 6:27 AM |
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I have to agree with Mark on this one. The line editor's responsibility goes a lot further than that.
@Grantbo, there is a dealer on the Web who sells LeMat replicas that fire .44 cartridges.
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 10/14/2011 7:31 AM |
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I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. This is me, being wrong.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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ShadowTekBasic Member Posts:163
| 10/21/2011 4:49 PM |
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Graphic Audio books 99 and 100 are coming out soon, I cant wait to see what the latest in DL is happening, both books are listen as coming soon on GA's site |
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captainbasilNew Member Posts:30
| 10/28/2011 5:31 AM |
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I have a long commute and listen to many of the DL books on Graphic Audio, however I wanted to actually read Prodigal's Return, even though GA does a superlative job adapting the stories. I pre-ordered the book and read it several weeks ago. It started off well, but , for me anyway, it just fell flat. It's not terrible and I like Dean's character development, but the ending left me cold and there wasn't enough interaction between Dean and the companions. I think I outsmarted myself. I should have waited for the Graphic Audio adaptation. My rating is 7/10.
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twinsrule26Basic Member Posts:109
| 11/10/2011 12:57 AM |
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I thought that some parts of this book were done well the collecting of weapons from the dead the spiking of the barrels. but there was so many things wrong with this book it made me sad. Cougars are basically untrainable as war cats . Mildred running off to see a battle that the companions were not involved in was out of character if you ask me . I could go on almost forever.
All in all this wasn't one of the better books in this series. Still I will buy the next one and lose myself in the struggles of my heroes of Deathlands.
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The Red BaronNew Member Posts:6
| 5/15/2012 6:10 AM |
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This is the first DL I've read in a few years. I really enjoyed it. I need to go back to whenever Dean left though because I have no clue how he came to leave the group.
I really liked: The malfunctioning trans-mats, the tarantulas and Predark tech, the mention of satellites in space that "may" still be plotting war
The bad: What is with the ridiculous typos throughout the book? This thread mentions a few times about line editors at Gold Eagle. There's nothing worse than stumbling across typos that tear you away from a good story. Is Gold Eagle not doing their job or what?
I look forward to seeing where the Dean story goes and if anything more gets mentioned about Predark satellites (even if it won't be until the same author writes his next book)
I give it like a 7.5 - 7.7 out of 10. Good stuff.
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)3az )3aziahBritish Bloke Veteran Member Posts:1060
| 5/15/2012 6:44 PM |
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Posted By The Red Baron on 15 May 2012 06:10 AM
This is the first DL I've read in a few years. I really enjoyed it. I need to go back to whenever Dean left though because I have no clue how he came to leave the group.
I really liked: The malfunctioning trans-mats, the tarantulas and Predark tech, the mention of satellites in space that "may" still be plotting war
The bad: What is with the ridiculous typos throughout the book? This thread mentions a few times about line editors at Gold Eagle. There's nothing worse than stumbling across typos that tear you away from a good story. Is Gold Eagle not doing their job or what?
I look forward to seeing where the Dean story goes and if anything more gets mentioned about Predark satellites (even if it won't be until the same author writes his next book)
I give it like a 7.5 - 7.7 out of 10. Good stuff.
They are mat-trans units
If you want to know about satellites still in orbit read Outlanders, Kane and co. use them to communicate with each other.
Don't hold your breath on the continuation of the Dean story, the goldfish amnesia sets in again with the next book along...
"Dean, who's Dean?" Said Ryan
"Your lost Son Ryan"
"I have a SON!! Don't sh!t me J.B"
Jim
=============================== Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.
Please check out my FLICKR photos
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The Red BaronNew Member Posts:6
| 5/15/2012 8:04 PM |
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Jim,
That's funny; I actually paused while typing "trans-mat". Hmm... is it mat trans or trans mat. I chose wrong. |
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KerrickBasic Member Posts:322
| 5/16/2012 7:45 PM |
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Dean disappeared in Separation, about 6 years ago real time (3 in DL time). The summary's up on the wiki; I wouldn't bother reading the book unless you need something to put you to sleep at night.
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The Red BaronNew Member Posts:6
| 5/16/2012 11:22 PM |
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Thanks for the info Kerrick!
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| 5/27/2012 1:23 AM |
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I really didn't care for this book. I liked the overall plot and the plight of Dean and his following story, but I felt that it should have really included more of a meeting with his father afterward's. Telling him to go to hell was just sort of assinine to me after not seeing his dad for 4 years. I think their should of at least been a few pages of dialogue between his father and him. Even if he did wax his old lady...
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