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General questions about Apocalypse Unborn
Last Post 6/27/2009 7:18 PM by Diablo. 17 Replies.
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gumble
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6/19/2009 4:17 AM
    Hi all, OK I have just finished reading Apocalypse Unborn, but I was wondering if someone out there can clarify a few things for me.

    Firstly, when did Mildred learn how to access the Mat-trans computer to gain the redoubt code to follow Doc. Yeah, I remember her using the comps before but it seemed to me the first time she actually knew what she was doing. If this is the case then the group could partially start to piece together a map - or plan - of some of the locations of the dedoubts. Could the LD button be giving up code on the computer for Mildred to start mapping ?

    Secondly, I did not quite understand if the the 'white-coats' theory was based on Docs first time trawl or him being sent forward shortly before Skydark ? As it stated that they were warning others about what would happen if they continued down this avenue. I say this because unknown to Bell and Kirby, they would have been doomed from the start without even knowing it prior to being frozen if it was based on the second. Returning Doc would not have amended everything back to normal, since the group trawled (too many books ago) Michael and a few messy others to the future which would have upset the balance even more - and you could not de-trawl a dead guy ?

    Thirdly, why did the group not go after Magus ? They had his code.

    Fourth, why were all the muties fighting together ? I think the author had been watching the final LOTR movie when penning this !!!

    Anyhow, for all it's inconsistencies, over-population of muties, talking birds and far too long fights, I actually enjoyed it
    AP
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    6/19/2009 11:06 AM
    Posted By gumble on 19 Jun 2009 04:17 AM
    Hi all, OK I have just finished reading Apocalypse Unborn, but I was wondering if someone out there can clarify a few things for me.

    Firstly, when did Mildred learn how to access the Mat-trans computer to gain the redoubt code to follow Doc. Yeah, I remember her using the comps before but it seemed to me the first time she actually knew what she was doing. If this is the case then the group could partially start to piece together a map - or plan - of some of the locations of the dedoubts. Could the LD button be giving up code on the computer for Mildred to start mapping ?

    Secondly, I did not quite understand if the the 'white-coats' theory was based on Docs first time trawl or him being sent forward shortly before Skydark ? As it stated that they were warning others about what would happen if they continued down this avenue. I say this because unknown to Bell and Kirby, they would have been doomed from the start without even knowing it prior to being frozen if it was based on the second. Returning Doc would not have amended everything back to normal, since the group trawled (too many books ago) Michael and a few messy others to the future which would have upset the balance even more - and you could not de-trawl a dead guy ?

    Thirdly, why did the group not go after Magus ? They had his code.

    Fourth, why were all the muties fighting together ? I think the author had been watching the final LOTR movie when penning this !!!

    Anyhow, for all it's inconsistencies, over-population of muties, talking birds and far too long fights, I actually enjoyed it

    I guess that "someone" should be me.

    Question 1:  Series’ history dictates that the companions lack the intellectual capacity to map, to note, or to otherwise construct (and remember) a rational, operational overview of their world. Although this remarkable failing has never been explained, I put it down to their eating too much rat-on-a-stick and never changing their underwear. 

    Question 2:  It was based on both trawls, I think (I'd have to reread the book to be sure and I don't have time to do that). The first trawl raised their suspicions, second trawl confirmed them.  Returning Doc to Emily and the kids wouldn’t put everything back to normal. It would restart the chronology at that point in another distinct timeline where the disruption of the t/s continuum and Apocalyptic destruction that Bell and Kirby feared would not occur (it would be undone). If they could rejoin that timeline, they could live out their lives in a "normal world." (Note: in DL whitecoats never seem to act responsibly; they always end up opening Pandora's box.)

    Question 3: Magus could have jumped a dozen times by the time the companions recovered Doc. Or more likely, he could have arranged for them to jump into a trap: stuck in a mat-trans unit with who knows what waiting for them outside. Going after him would have been a very bad idea. I probably should have made that clear. 

    Question 4: I’m not entirely sure I understand the fourth question. By “fighting together” do you mean, why were they obeying the orders of Magus? He wasn’t actually "ordering" them to do anything, or to act in concert. He had set up conditions and triggers (starvation, imprisonment, the smell of blood, etc.) where what they did instinctively when released suited his ends.

    Never saw the last LOTR movie--all the jump-cut action scenes in the second one made me dizzy and want to puke.  This was my DL “Gladiator” book. Other DL writers had been given a chance to do one, so many in fact that I had been specifically warned AGAINST writing one by editorial, so I figured why the eff not?   I also figured if Magus was going to stage a Circus of Death for himself it had to be a wildass, memorable hum-dinger.

    Hope this helps some.  Glad you enjoyed the book despite its shortcomings.
    JerichoGirl
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    6/19/2009 3:47 PM
    Have you noticed that as the series goes on, the group are using the mat-trans units less and less?
    AP
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    6/19/2009 4:37 PM
    Posted By JerichoGirl on 19 Jun 2009 03:47 PM
    Have you noticed that as the series goes on, the group are using the mat-trans units less and less?

    Don't know about the other DL books because I haven't read them, and I haven't talked to any of the other current DL writers about this, but speaking for myself, I just got tired of having to rewrite the whole LJ "mat-trans choreography" (floor and wall plates, fog, icky dreams, barfing, barf drool) in every book. Also, mat-trans jumping from place to place eliminates the journey (which builds tension) and discovery (which adds fresh detail), both of which are a fun part of the adventure genre.   

    What kind of a book (aside from shorter ) would AU have been if the companions had just jumped to the island and started hacking?
    Diablo
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    6/20/2009 3:53 AM
    I have to say that I liked Apocalypse Unborn.The talkin "bird" came out of nowhere.Thats the stuff I like to see.The one thing that surprises me is to hear AP say he doesn't read other DL's books.But aside from that I think AP has a grasp on what we fans want.His "mat-trans" thoughts is dead on.Do we need to read about "walls,ect" every book?I don't think so.Keep up the good work AP.
    AP
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    6/20/2009 11:18 AM
    Posted By Diablo on 20 Jun 2009 03:53 AM
    I have to say that I liked Apocalypse Unborn.The talkin "bird" came out of nowhere.Thats the stuff I like to see.The one thing that surprises me is to hear AP say he doesn't read other DL's books.But aside from that I think AP has a grasp on what we fans want.His "mat-trans" thoughts is dead on.Do we need to read about "walls,ect" every book?I don't think so.Keep up the good work AP.

    I appreciate your comments, Diablo.

    “Keeping up the good work” on DL is not happening, though.  I’ve written my last book in the series, Doom Helix, which will be out next year. I’m working on Slaughter Realms and other original stuff, albeit sporadically because of the dayjob and other unavoidable distractions.

    Don’t be surprised that I haven’t read any of the other DL writers’ books except for LJ’s. I assume your concern is over “continuity.” Reading the other DL writers’ books wouldn’t do me any good in that regard unless I got to see them in manuscript form. By the time the books are released there are four or five turned-in manuscripts in the pipeline. If I picked up a book in a store and read it, the “continuity” would already be at least a year behind.
    JerichoGirl
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    6/20/2009 4:37 PM
    Posted By AP on 20 Jun 2009 11:18 AM
    Don’t be surprised that I haven’t read any of the other DL writers’ books except for LJ’s. .







    I'm not surprised...you would be wasting your time reading the other DL writers' books.....If anything, THEY should be reading YOUR books to learn how to write more interesting stories!
    AP
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    6/20/2009 6:36 PM
    Posted By JerichoGirl on 20 Jun 2009 04:37 PM

    I'm not surprised...you would be wasting your time reading the other DL writers' books.....If anything, THEY should be reading YOUR books to learn how to write more interesting stories!

    Jericho Girl,
    Very kind of you to say, but I don’t think my DL work is instructive. I actually only have one thing to suggest to the other DL authors and it has nothing to do with story technique: whatever you do, don’t wait until the day a book is due to start writing it.
    gumble
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    6/21/2009 4:27 AM

    With regards to the group not using the mat-trans at the start of the new books I would like to politely disagree with you all on it !

    Let me explain.

    One of the things that really first addicted me to the DL books was that the group were entering this twilight world of gray walls and mysterious location redoubts, not knowing what was lurking in the shadows of the flickering neon lights, or who if anyone was wartching them on the tracking video-cameras. I loved the tension building as they would round each corner and meet what was lurking there - a giant spider, an inbred family, a hunter droid. Would the sec doors open, were there munitions, food or even hot water in the stalls. I have to say that two of my favourites were  the redoubt with the frozen dead being eaten !  And even just the comedy value of eating boot stew made a book for me !!

    I would actually would love some authors to go back to doing this in some of the books. I would say though that I am also less bothered by the 'mist and glowing disc' aspects being re-stated than i am about the constant 5 or 6 pages each book giving the description of the group - but I understand this is probably due to new readers.

    Also, the group state in many of the books both their importance to them and also they always seem to have too much ammo or munitions in JB bag of tricks just to be wandering around DL after luckily filling up somewhere. 

    I would never criticise an author for missing them out, afterall variety is what the series needs and has been getting alot more of lately.

    Finally - back to the flaming talking bird. Sorry sir, but I found it a bit too Pythonesque ! "I'm a talking bird, and so's my wife" !







     

     

    Another One Eyed Chiller
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    6/22/2009 7:33 PM

    Yeah and that sucks,I don't care what thse newer authors say.

    The mat trans jumps were,along with other regular characterizations and storylines by Laurence James,the essiantial Death Lands.

    Too bad I can't clone him so he can instruct these arrogant writers who rip on the series when the reason the series has gone to shit is their writing!

    AP
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    6/22/2009 9:52 PM
    Posted By Another One Eyed Chiller on 22 Jun 2009 07:33 PM

     

    Too bad I can't clone him so he can instruct these arrogant writers who rip on the series when the reason the series has gone to shit is their writing!


    Uhh, if you could "clone him," he could write the effing series himself.
    Another One Eyed Chiller
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    6/22/2009 11:35 PM

    Wait a minute pilgrim!

    You were one of the few authors I was not refering too as I did praise the books you wrote about the Plague Lords.

    And you are right if I could clone him I don't think it would upset too mant fans.

    I have a more practical solution though:why don't one of you "Authors" just go back and read the first 30 or so books really well,maybe 5x each,then study how Laurence James did it,you know,making Ryan seem like.....well,Ryan,Jak...like Jak...etc....Actually bring the characters back to having a unique identity each.

    As well as using the mat trans units regularly as that is what hooked us Death Lands fans in the first place.Plus,maybe someone could talk GE into letting you guy's add on some clothes/blasters occasionally instead of totally changing them like we all know they won't allow.
    Chris

    Diablo
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    6/24/2009 2:34 AM
    Your right gumble.A talkin bird,how stupid.Oooo....wait a min.dont we have talkin birds now?In petshops?In our homes?I hate to hear Doom Helix is ur last book AP.I hope you throw us a bone on the original stuff ur workin on
    gumble
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    6/24/2009 3:28 AM
    Diablo, with respects, you are quite right of course there are talking birds in pet shops and in the hoimes of people throughout the world, but if your trying to tell me that the birds in your area are intelligently free talking and not mimicking what they hear from their 'master' or the radio - then I'm sorry mate you must be getting some seriously bad jolt or a case of the oozies !!!! (joke)

    I can believe some of the muties, stickies, doomies, cannies and even some sort of dragony sort of thing I think that appeared in / outside a mat-trans in one of the very early books. Sorry, but in my humble opinion it carried the accetable mutie strain too far.

    Respects though to the writer, he cannot possibly hope to appease all the readers all the time. It was still enjoyable though.

    AP
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    6/24/2009 9:49 AM
    Do I really have to explain the function of the talking bird in that scene in the novel?  The function as it relates to Doc and the Islanders?  Sheesh. 

    I'm working intermittently (because of continuing, incredibly time-consuming family crises) on Slaughter Realms/Iroquois Vengeance.  Which started out as an original take-off on the post-Apocalyptic genre, but has morphed into something darker and more complex.  By Friday there will be five chapters of it up on the SR.com website. The chapter going up on Friday is the premiere of the INP "drop top"--a unique sword-fighting technique that plays on the hard-wiring of the male brain.
    Diablo
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    6/27/2009 6:36 PM
    You may have to explain the talkin bird AP.I'm findin it hard to belive gumble will accept that a "stickie" would be more likely to mutate than a talkin bird.Can anyone point out to me where there is anything close to a stickie in nature right now?As far as a "doomie" isn't that a psychic we have all over every town we live in now?And we all know that there are tribes in the amazon that eat the flesh of dead enemies,"cannies".Before anyone says "what about an octopus and a stickie",theres noway an octopus grows legs and a mouth full of teeth before a bird ask not to be killed.
    AP
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    6/27/2009 7:01 PM
    Posted By Diablo on 27 Jun 2009 06:36 PM
    You may have to explain the talkin bird AP.I'm findin it hard to belive gumble will accept that a "stickie" would be more likely to mutate than a talkin bird.Can anyone point out to me where there is anything close to a stickie in nature right now?As far as a "doomie" isn't that a psychic we have all over every town we live in now?And we all know that there are tribes in the amazon that eat the flesh of dead enemies,"cannies".Before anyone says "what about an octopus and a stickie",theres noway an octopus grows legs and a mouth full of teeth before a bird ask not to be killed.
    OK, Diablo.

    The “talking bird” was not meant to be slapstick-funny as in Monty Python, but black humor funny. Its function and the function of that particular scene in AU was to draw a distinction between Doc and the Islanders. Between a “civilized” predark man (Doc), and an unpredictably violent and alien, postnuke people. I tried to transfer that information in the most uncomfortable way I could muster—that’s my job. Gettin' icky.

    Was the bird really trying to communicate? Was it really intelligent? Or were the sounds it made just a blind survival adaptation, like a parrot’s ability to mimic human speech, or the siren song (scent) of those waving “beach bunnies” who lured poor, hopelessly aroused male sailors to their doom?

    Turns out the answers depend on who’s listening, and what they want to hear. Kind of like this thread.

    Diablo
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    6/27/2009 7:18 PM
    AP the talkin bird explanation wasn't for me.I got it.I just though some others might need it.But ur right about "who's listening" and 'what they want to hear".
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