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Outlanders 57 - Scarlet Dream
Last Post 7/9/2011 5:09 PM by Ron Miles. 44 Replies.
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Ron Miles
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1/1/2011 3:33 PM

    This is the official thread for comments on Outlanders #57 - Scarlet Dream

    The bibliography page is located HERE

    You can submit your own review HERE

    Be warned, this thread may contain spoilers for the book.

    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Ron Miles
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    2/6/2011 9:15 AM
    Just added the cover artwork for Scarlet Dream. A hot voodoo priestess Danger Babe plus an army of zombies. Whee!
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Ron Miles
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    2/6/2011 6:32 PM
    All: To my knowledge nobody has read this book yet besides the author and the line editor. If you want to criticize the story once you have read some portion of it, that is one thing. Criticizing the story based solely on the cover is entirely another matter. You want to criticize the artwork or title, that's fair game as well.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    )3az )3aziah
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    2/6/2011 7:43 PM
    Ron,

    Even YOU cant say that this book has so many similarities to Marks book "Shadow Scourge"

    Just read what is printed on the back of each book -both quoted from THIS site

    Scarlet Dream

    "In the fetid swamps of Louisiana, the dead rise, commanded by their new, powerful queen. Facing off against an army of zombies, Kane, Grant and Brigid must somehow kill the undead. If they fail, the crazed voodoo priestess will infect her minions with a pre-dark biological weapon designed to destroy all life on earth. and then the dead will truly rise."

    Shadow Scourge

    "A renegade enforcer of the new order, Kane is now a freedom fighter dedicated with fellow insurrectionists to free the future from the yoke of Archon Power. The bayous of Louisiana, steeped in magic and voodoo, are a new epicenter of a dark, ancient evil. Here, the primordial horrors of a lost world are being resurrected into a living nightmare, unleashing a pestilence that may destroy hybrid and human alike."

    Just in case you can't check out these

    SD Louisiana / SS Louisiana
    SD swamps / SS bayous (same thing)
    SD the dead will truly rise / SS resurrected into a living nightmare (again same thing)
    SD pre-dark biological weapon designed to destroy all life on earth /SS unleashing a pestilence that may destroy hybrid and human alike (get the idea yet?)

    The proof is there Ron, there in YOUR web page so why delete the truth? Why are you so bothered by what is being pointed out to you on your own site?
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    )3az )3aziah
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    2/6/2011 7:51 PM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 06 Feb 2011 06:32 PM
    once you have read some portion of it, that is one thing. Criticizing the story based solely on the cover is entirely another matter.

    So once its published and we see it is the same rehashed storyline you will leave the posts intact for all to read and finally agree what I and Mark have posted was the truth?
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Jax2
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    2/6/2011 8:26 PM
    So let me get this straight...

    People have posted lies and insults about me, about Outlanders and you've let those stand.

    I make a fairly generalized observation, somewhat snarky I admit, about the remarkable similarity between Scarlet Dream and Shadow Scourge and you delete it without so much as a heads-up PM?

    In lieu off the kind of attacks and even threats that you've permitted here--many which are still up--it's my opinion that if you on your own interpreted my post as a criticism rather than as an observation, you're definitely looking for a reason to alienate me and apparently other veteran members of this site.

    I have a suspicion that if somebody else had posted the exact same thing other than me, you wouldn't had given it a second thought.

    So what is it....Because I'm no longer writing OL due in the main to machinations on the part of the former executive editor, I therefore have no right make comments about characters and concepts of my own creation...and which remain my intellectual property? 

    Or (as I suspect is the most likely) did somebody currently connected to GE come whining to you because I still have the temerity to post occasonal reminders about the creator connection between me and property published as Outlanders?

    If that's the case, they (he or she or both) need to come to terms with it.

    I never walk away from anything I created. And everything I ever created always ends up back with me.

    Denial and pretense and deleted posts aren't going to change that.

    However, I will concede that I like the cover of Scarlet Dream. Too bad that it's a cover for a book that isn't canonical.








    Millennial Man
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    2/6/2011 8:27 PM
    I think everyone should calm down and enjoy a good read before they comment on the book. The upcoming book will pass on its own merit.
    Ron Miles
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    2/6/2011 9:25 PM
    Nobody from GE approached me.

    I am not trying to alienate anyone.

    I have taken a stronger hand in moderating the forums on this website in the last year specifically in order to prevent exactly the kind of garbage and hostility that has existed in the past. That includes forcing all posts from newer users to have to be approved before going live, and it includes policing posts from more established users who do not have post moderation applied to them automatically.

    There is no mystery that the Outlanders concept was created by Mark Ellis, and was also written primarily by Mark Ellis up through Ghostwalk. I understand and appreciate Mark's strong feelings on the subject, and I equally understand the the strong feelings of Mark's fans regarding the current status of the series.

    That being said, this website is JamesAxler.com . Fans of Mark Ellis can always find him at MarkEllisInk.com, and he is always welcome to post here. I am not prepared to close up shop on a website I have run for fourteen years because a certain author is no longer writing for the series. If I was going to do that, I should have quit after Laurence James left Deathlands. If someday the rights for Outlanders reverts to Mark Ellis and he resumes the series with another publisher or in another format under his own name, then I would 1) be absolutely thrilled for Mark and 2) would no longer track the series on this website aside from a huge pointer for fans to find it in its new home.

    Unless and until that happens, I will continue to track the series here and I will continue to do my best to moderate this forum as open and honestly as I know how. If I fail, it is only because I am human and not because I have any particular axe to grind with anyone.

    Mark, if I have offended or insulted you it was not intentional, and I do apologize. I had several other things going on earlier this evening when I removed those posts, and in retrospect you are correct that a private message to you was warranted. Unfortunately the end result is that now this thread appears to have been poisoned anyway. I am loathe to delete the whole thing soviet-style, so here it stands.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Jax2
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    2/6/2011 11:13 PM
    Well...I understand that and apology accepted.

    However, the tone of the follow-up posts make the original deleted one seem far worse than it actually was. It really wasn't a criticism but it was indeed an observation.

    If nothing else, I think we can all agree that it's undeniable the description of Scarlet Dream is remarkably similar to my own Shadow Scourge . Jim did a masterful job of delineating the resemblences.

    In my initial post, I asked rhetorically hadn't that book been written already and answered it by posting a link to the Graphic Audio excerpt of Shadow Scourge which featured the voodoo priestess.

    I then mentioned my intention to blog about the genesis of the Outlanders series, also referencing a degree of revisionism already applied to how it came about...I discussed that in greater length in a blog this past summer.

    One of the reasons I bring the matter up is simply a way of establishing my rights over my intellectual property. I am acting on advice I was given.

    Just to be clear--all characters and concepts of my own creation that continue to appear in Outlanders are my intellectual property.

    And that includes a certain voodoo priestess who may or may not appear in Scarlet Dream.

    Just sayin'.

    )3az )3aziah
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    2/7/2011 7:54 AM
    Ron,

    I too understand your position in all of this but was bothered by your draconian approach to the deletion of my first post, without so much as a PM to warn or say why, on the grounds that my observations in relation to the rear cover text of both books constituted an attack on the book before it has even been published. This was not the case; I only posted MY views on what I had read and my surprise at the many similarities that had gone un-noticed by the staff at GE and apparently yourself also.

    I hope we can now draw a line under this and move on?
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Cerberus Man
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    2/7/2011 12:59 PM
    I saw the posts about Shadow Scourge/Scarlet Dream yesterday so I was surprised to come back today and find out they were deleted since they didn't seem to be more than comments and observations.

    But I was reminded of something I posted here about 2 years ago and I had to go looking for it before I found it again. Seems more appropriate now than when I posted it in April of 09!

    "As it, the OL books that have come out since Mark's Ghostwalk are just rehashing all of his concepts anyway, from the Millennial Consortium, to the Anunnaki Overlords to even reviving Colonel Thrush.

    From what I see, none of the fill-in OL writers are extending themselves to come up with anything remotely original.

    They're just churning out copies of books and plots that were written years ago.

    That's not enough to maintain the fan-base Mark built in my opinion. "

    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
    The Phantom
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    2/7/2011 4:48 PM
    That is a wicked cool cover. Hopefully the cover blurb is very generalized and the contents within are not a copy of Shadow Scourge.

    Just out of curiosity, what would be some ideas fill-in writers could use or directions the series could be taken that would be viable storylines? It seems that if things are too different, or too much the same, readers wil be upset with the material.
     Is there some middle ground, or is it a hopeless case for anyone to try writing for the series?

    After I finish reading Ghostwalk, there is only one more book by Ellis left for me to read, I really hate the idea of putting this series aside for good. In the meantime if there are more books coming out, whether they are canon or not, I still want to read more of the Cerberus crew's adventures. I will give some fill-in writer's books a try later on, but really hoping Outlanders does become entirely in Mark's control.
    )3az )3aziah
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    2/7/2011 5:07 PM
    I don't see why the powers that be at GE don't give each of the new writers a character to concentrate on and then do stories based on the time before they joined up with Lakesh.

    Still won't be the same as Marks work but it would at least open up new ground for readers.

    Just a random thought.
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Ron Miles
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    2/7/2011 11:45 PM
    "From what I see, none of the fill-in OL writers are extending themselves to come up with anything remotely original. "

    Have you read any of the books since Mark's last regular contribution? I haven't read all of them (I am way behind in my reading), but I can at least say that Infinity Breach was unlike any other book I have read in the series. The Doc Savage pastiche flashbacks matched the tone of the series before it, but the Angels and the Bleed were very different than any other nemesis that I can recall.

    In the case of Scarlet Dream all we have thus far is the cover artwork and the back cover copy. Based solely on that thin data there seems to be some surface similarities to Shadow Scourge, sure. Even so, I have seen many cases where the back cover copy doesn't even come close to describing the actual book. We'll see when it actually comes out.

    And just so I am abundantly clear: this site will continue to cover both Deathlands and Outlanders for as long as they continue to be published under the James Axler pseudonym, regardless of who the actual author is. If one or the other series ceases to be published, or moves to a different publisher under a different byline, then they will no longer belong on JamesAxler.com and will cease to appear here. If both were to go away, then I guess I would pretty much archive the whole site and let it be a museum piece. I understand and respect the strong feelings that many longtime members have regarding the current status of OL, and that's fine. But I am simply not going to allow every OL thread to become all axe-grindy on the subject, because I believe that does a disservice to the website. All I can do is the best I can do, in the most honest and open way I know how. If that makes me draconian, or (as someone on another site I run once called me) a Punk Kid Hitler, well, so be it.
    "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
    Cerberus Man
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    2/9/2011 10:12 AM
    Posted By Ron Miles on 07 Feb 2011 11:45 PM
    "From what I see, none of the fill-in OL writers are extending themselves to come up with anything remotely original. "

    Have you read any of the books since Mark's last regular contribution?

    At the time I posted the above I had read two of them and was starting on a third but lost interest after about 30 pages. That was Death Cry.

    The books didn't grab me, didn't have the feel of the real OL and so I didn't follow up on any others.

    Now after finding out how badly Mark was treated by an ex GE executive, I have zero interest. I wouldn't pay a penny for a GE product now.

    My opinion.


    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
    )3az )3aziah
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    5/12/2011 3:40 PM
    Has anyone read this yet?

    I have it -I had to buy it to prove once and for all if it was a rip off or not, but haven't started it yet.

    I will reserve further jugement until I have read it.

    It will most likely be the last OL book I will buy.
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Cerberus Man
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    5/13/2011 11:58 AM
    Posted By )3az )3aziah on 12 May 2011 03:40 PM
    Has anyone read this yet? 



    Since it's not part of the canon, I don't see the point.
    "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)
    )3az )3aziah
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    5/13/2011 3:13 PM
    I know its not but after my rant about it being a direct rip off of Marks "Shadow Scourge" I had to get it to see if I was proven correct. Its been quite a while since I read SC I am re reading it before moving on to this one.
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
    Gazhack
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    5/15/2011 11:51 AM
    I haven't read Shadow Scourge so can't comment on similarites. But I can say that I've just finished Scarlet Dream and enjoyed it immensely. And that the cover is seriously misleading on one point, ie. the appearence of Ezili Coeur Noir who I'm guessing the woman is supposed to be.

    I've posted a review to the book's page, which will hopefully appear in a few days.
    )3az )3aziah
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    6/19/2011 3:09 PM
    Oh god no...

    I'm about 80 pages into this and its laughable...







    SPOILERS -if you care...






    Brigit is wearing a shadow siut AND a pair of cowboy boots (with hollow heals) in on scene -RIK Cowboy boots are Krysty's claim to fame in DL AND shadow suits have built in boots.

    The discovery of a DL book in one of the dorms.... Hmmmm

    It also appears that Rik uses some other well known GE characters as a basis for his zombies -NO RIK NO, that is wrong, so wrong...

    God knows what the rest of this quite awful book is going to offer me? I plod on...
    ===============================
    Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
    Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.


    Please check out my FLICKR photos
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